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RE: Cultures and books as bridges OR If beautiful, not true, If true, not beautiful
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From: Charles Bayless <charles.bayless_at_gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 13:03:18 -0500
Allison Bruce said: "I don't buy the premise that cultural translation needs to happen to nearly the extent that you suggest it does. In fact, I think that often, it doesn't need to happen at all. I think this is one area in which we adults tend to grossly underestimate kids. Case in point: Manga."
Good question and yes, some cultural translations are easier than others and many happen in ways and for reasons we don't understand. My point is not that cultural translation is impossible. My point is that it is highly subjective and that it often entails challenging trade-off decisions between being true to the original versus being accessible to the intended audience. Why has Manga turned out to be so popular and accessible in the West? I have no idea. Why is Ann of Green Gables so popular in Japan (as I am told)? I have no idea.
I can't really speak to the case of Manga, because 1) I don't know much about it, 2) it is a distinctly different book form in which text plays at least a different if not a lesser role than the visual artwork, 3) it sounds like cultural adaptation might already be an issue from the perspective of omitting materials that are considered provocative in the US market. I am guessing that the issue of cultural translation is still there, just not readily apparent. So I think Manga is a good test question but the answers lie in detail which I don't know. Without those details, I am not sure what the Manga example tells us in terms of cultural translation.
But I think the underlying issue of cultural translation is alive and well and prevalent, though in varying degrees. Just look at the variety of translations of the Bible, Herodotus, the Odyssey and the Iliad, Thucydides, Beowulf, the Icelandic Sagas, Chaucer, etc. Those are in our own cultural lineage and yet we struggle with how to retell them across time. Shakespeare can be hard, Chaucer even harder, Beowulf still harder, Snorri harder yet. It is not that it can't be done. But how do you do it in a fashion that is true to the original but also engaging to the contemporary mind. Because the degree of accessibility and engagement is what will determine commercial success.
Charles
From: Allison Bruce [mailto:abruce_at_bankstreet.edu] Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2014 11:21 PM To: Charles Bayless Cc: Christine Taylor-Butler; CCBC-Net Network Subject: Re: [ccbc-net] Cultures and books as bridges OR If beautiful, not true, If true, not beautiful
Hi Charles (and everyone),
You say, "Translating across cultures is fraught with trade-off decisions between accommodation of the reading culture which you are targeting and accuracy to the originating culture."
I don't buy the premise that cultural translation needs to happen to nearly the extent that you suggest it does. In fact, I think that often, it doesn't need to happen at all. I think this is one area in which we adults tend to grossly underestimate kids.
Case in point: Manga. Unbelievably popular among kids in the US. I like your distinction between linguistic and cultural translation, and will borrow it for this. Manga is linguistically translated for US kids, but I would argue only partially, since the Japanese right-to-left flow--an important part of the reading experience that counters what US kids are used to--is preserved. Culturally, it's hardly translated at all--that's why it causes such head-scratching among adults.
I read books written about Japan and Japanese kids that are conceived and written for an American audience. And I read manga. Lots of manga. There's some great stuff in both categories.
I regularly feel a little wrong-footed reading manga, as it contains many norms that are not my norms and experiences that are not my experiences, and those are rarely, if ever, explained to me--after all, these books aren't written for me, but for a Japanese audience. But I find that reading experience downright refreshing and it's one of the reasons I keep reading manga. I've learned much more about Japan from reading manga than from books that are supposed to teach Americans about Japan. And as for kids--they seem to accept these cultural differences in manga without a second thought, without feeling the lack of contextualization or hand-holding.
And sometimes, something truly magical happens. I'll be reading a manga, and suddenly I'll realize that somehow, an author on the other side of the globe--who doesn't speak my language, share my cultural norms, or live a life remotely like mine--somehow this author understands me. Because despite our multitudinous differences, we are both human, and we can make a connection through a book. Even if it's not culturally translated.
Great stories are great stories no matter the culture from which they emanate. We err on the side of cultural translation and handholding, thinking kids need this. I don't think they do.
And since you're statistics-driven, I'd urge you to check the stats on manga circulation in public libraries in your area, or just visit them to see how well-loved they are. Or visit a comics store, or a Barnes and Noble, to see how much shelf space they devote to them and how well-trafficked they are. You might find that experience a more statistically significant sample than your experiences with your own children, as powerful as they were.
That is all.
Allie
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 13:03:18 -0500
Allison Bruce said: "I don't buy the premise that cultural translation needs to happen to nearly the extent that you suggest it does. In fact, I think that often, it doesn't need to happen at all. I think this is one area in which we adults tend to grossly underestimate kids. Case in point: Manga."
Good question and yes, some cultural translations are easier than others and many happen in ways and for reasons we don't understand. My point is not that cultural translation is impossible. My point is that it is highly subjective and that it often entails challenging trade-off decisions between being true to the original versus being accessible to the intended audience. Why has Manga turned out to be so popular and accessible in the West? I have no idea. Why is Ann of Green Gables so popular in Japan (as I am told)? I have no idea.
I can't really speak to the case of Manga, because 1) I don't know much about it, 2) it is a distinctly different book form in which text plays at least a different if not a lesser role than the visual artwork, 3) it sounds like cultural adaptation might already be an issue from the perspective of omitting materials that are considered provocative in the US market. I am guessing that the issue of cultural translation is still there, just not readily apparent. So I think Manga is a good test question but the answers lie in detail which I don't know. Without those details, I am not sure what the Manga example tells us in terms of cultural translation.
But I think the underlying issue of cultural translation is alive and well and prevalent, though in varying degrees. Just look at the variety of translations of the Bible, Herodotus, the Odyssey and the Iliad, Thucydides, Beowulf, the Icelandic Sagas, Chaucer, etc. Those are in our own cultural lineage and yet we struggle with how to retell them across time. Shakespeare can be hard, Chaucer even harder, Beowulf still harder, Snorri harder yet. It is not that it can't be done. But how do you do it in a fashion that is true to the original but also engaging to the contemporary mind. Because the degree of accessibility and engagement is what will determine commercial success.
Charles
From: Allison Bruce [mailto:abruce_at_bankstreet.edu] Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2014 11:21 PM To: Charles Bayless Cc: Christine Taylor-Butler; CCBC-Net Network Subject: Re: [ccbc-net] Cultures and books as bridges OR If beautiful, not true, If true, not beautiful
Hi Charles (and everyone),
You say, "Translating across cultures is fraught with trade-off decisions between accommodation of the reading culture which you are targeting and accuracy to the originating culture."
I don't buy the premise that cultural translation needs to happen to nearly the extent that you suggest it does. In fact, I think that often, it doesn't need to happen at all. I think this is one area in which we adults tend to grossly underestimate kids.
Case in point: Manga. Unbelievably popular among kids in the US. I like your distinction between linguistic and cultural translation, and will borrow it for this. Manga is linguistically translated for US kids, but I would argue only partially, since the Japanese right-to-left flow--an important part of the reading experience that counters what US kids are used to--is preserved. Culturally, it's hardly translated at all--that's why it causes such head-scratching among adults.
I read books written about Japan and Japanese kids that are conceived and written for an American audience. And I read manga. Lots of manga. There's some great stuff in both categories.
I regularly feel a little wrong-footed reading manga, as it contains many norms that are not my norms and experiences that are not my experiences, and those are rarely, if ever, explained to me--after all, these books aren't written for me, but for a Japanese audience. But I find that reading experience downright refreshing and it's one of the reasons I keep reading manga. I've learned much more about Japan from reading manga than from books that are supposed to teach Americans about Japan. And as for kids--they seem to accept these cultural differences in manga without a second thought, without feeling the lack of contextualization or hand-holding.
And sometimes, something truly magical happens. I'll be reading a manga, and suddenly I'll realize that somehow, an author on the other side of the globe--who doesn't speak my language, share my cultural norms, or live a life remotely like mine--somehow this author understands me. Because despite our multitudinous differences, we are both human, and we can make a connection through a book. Even if it's not culturally translated.
Great stories are great stories no matter the culture from which they emanate. We err on the side of cultural translation and handholding, thinking kids need this. I don't think they do.
And since you're statistics-driven, I'd urge you to check the stats on manga circulation in public libraries in your area, or just visit them to see how well-loved they are. Or visit a comics store, or a Barnes and Noble, to see how much shelf space they devote to them and how well-trafficked they are. You might find that experience a more statistically significant sample than your experiences with your own children, as powerful as they were.
That is all.
Allie
-- Allie Jane Bruce Children's Librarian Bank Street College of Education 610 W. 112th St. New York, NY 10025 212-875-4452 (office) 703-795-4097 (cell) <https://twitter.com/alliejanebruce> <https://twitter.com/alliejanebruce> --- You are currently subscribed to ccbc-net as: ccbc-archive_at_post.education.wisc.edu. To post to the list, send message to: ccbc-net_at_lists.wisc.edu To receive messages in digest format, send a message to... ccbc-net-request_at_lists.wisc.edu ...and include only this command in the body of the message: set ccbc-net digest CCBC-Net Archives The CCBC-Net archives are available to all CCBC-Net listserv members. The archives are organized by month and year. A list of discussion topics (including month/year) is available at http://www.education.wisc.edu/ccbc/ccbcnet/archives.asp To access the archives, go to: http://ccbc.education.wisc.edu/ccbc-net and enter the following: username: ccbc-net password: Look4PostsReceived on Fri 28 Feb 2014 12:12:43 PM CST
