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Re: Bitterness and purity (and says christine - futility)
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From: Christine Taylor-Butler <kansascitymom_at_earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 19:17:35 -0600
Wow. Just wow! I think, perhaps, this is becoming unproductive. I think your need to make the following statement speaks volumes:
"…...So perhaps Debbie, Christine, others feel that way towards "white" people, towards the power structure, towards the enslavers and murderers of their ancestors….."
Somehow I think in a diversity discussion that "listening" to the concerns of the very people who are working inside the system might inform better than throwing third-party data to explain why their real-life experiences are invalid.
But I know that you will not be persuaded otherwise and hence when you get to the point of throwing labels at people of color to make a point - we've reached the end of the road.
.……Christine
On Feb 22, 2014, at 6:17 PM, bookmarch_at_aol.com wrote:
>
> There is a hostility in this discussion that, on reflection, I can understand. As I have written both here and in print, in my feelings, in my emotions, I cannot forgive the Germans. I cannot. I do not accept their flourishing economy, their leadership in the councils of Europe, their skill in sports and science. Those are my deep bitter feelings. So perhaps Debbie, Christine, others feel that way towards "white" people, towards the power structure, towards the enslavers and murderers of their ancestors. Those feelings endure -- which is exactly what President Obama so powerfully and brilliantly spoke about in his "race" speech after the Reverend Wright blow up during his first campaign.
>
> But feelings are not knowledge. I know modern Germans are not their grandparents. I know that there were Jews who were complicit in the Holocaust (the subject of Hannah Arendt's famous commentary on the Eichmann Trial, which is still controversial today); I know that African kings sold Africans into the slave trade; I know that the Seminoles decided to un-enroll African Americans. I know that we each as individuals make moral choices -- not as members of oppressed or oppressing races, nations, cultures, or ethnicities, but as individuals.
>
> And so I urge everyone to shift the discussion from purity or knowledge particular to one group or another to the talent, sagacity, insight, wisdom, skill, of individual authors -- such as Tim. Artistry matters -- bitterness between groups should not.
>
> Marc Aronson
>
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 19:17:35 -0600
Wow. Just wow! I think, perhaps, this is becoming unproductive. I think your need to make the following statement speaks volumes:
"…...So perhaps Debbie, Christine, others feel that way towards "white" people, towards the power structure, towards the enslavers and murderers of their ancestors….."
Somehow I think in a diversity discussion that "listening" to the concerns of the very people who are working inside the system might inform better than throwing third-party data to explain why their real-life experiences are invalid.
But I know that you will not be persuaded otherwise and hence when you get to the point of throwing labels at people of color to make a point - we've reached the end of the road.
.……Christine
On Feb 22, 2014, at 6:17 PM, bookmarch_at_aol.com wrote:
>
> There is a hostility in this discussion that, on reflection, I can understand. As I have written both here and in print, in my feelings, in my emotions, I cannot forgive the Germans. I cannot. I do not accept their flourishing economy, their leadership in the councils of Europe, their skill in sports and science. Those are my deep bitter feelings. So perhaps Debbie, Christine, others feel that way towards "white" people, towards the power structure, towards the enslavers and murderers of their ancestors. Those feelings endure -- which is exactly what President Obama so powerfully and brilliantly spoke about in his "race" speech after the Reverend Wright blow up during his first campaign.
>
> But feelings are not knowledge. I know modern Germans are not their grandparents. I know that there were Jews who were complicit in the Holocaust (the subject of Hannah Arendt's famous commentary on the Eichmann Trial, which is still controversial today); I know that African kings sold Africans into the slave trade; I know that the Seminoles decided to un-enroll African Americans. I know that we each as individuals make moral choices -- not as members of oppressed or oppressing races, nations, cultures, or ethnicities, but as individuals.
>
> And so I urge everyone to shift the discussion from purity or knowledge particular to one group or another to the talent, sagacity, insight, wisdom, skill, of individual authors -- such as Tim. Artistry matters -- bitterness between groups should not.
>
> Marc Aronson
>
---
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Received on Sat 22 Feb 2014 07:18:24 PM CST
