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Re: By, For, About
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From: bookmarch_at_aol.com
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 14:58:50 -0500 (EST)
I am sorry but we are going to have to agree to disagree -- civilly. I cannot say strongly enough how misguided and unhelpful it is to say --" two white authors," no, two university professors who conducted a well-regarded and influential study. Is one study the be all and end all, of course not. However it provides a useful insight that was missing from the discussion. Note that in the entire discussion of Do You Have to Be It to Write It every single post has presumed the "it" was fiction, folktales, or picture books. That is why it is crucial to remember that a great deal of literature beloved, and, more to the point, needed, by young readers is nonfiction, where the issues are completely different.
In nonfiction what matters is research, evidence, knowledge, sharing ideas with peers and being open to critique from experts, not who the author is (however that might be defined) -- there is no reason a current self-described African-American would "understand" the experience of an ancestor in 1840 or 1640 better than a Japanese expert who has studied that period. This is a point anthropologists and historians stress over and over again. Just as there is no reason I would know my grandfather's world dealing with pogroms and blood libels as Jew in Tsarist Kiev better than a Hispanic or German expert who is immersed in that period. I specifically say German because you might say that current victims of oppression would be likely to identify with their ancestors, and to resent a person from the dominant or oppressive culture researching and telling their story. Yes I might feel some friction at a German or Russian non-Jewish scholar telling my grandfather's story. But that is my bitterness for me to process. S/he has every right to his/her knowledge and authority which I must evaluate and respect on its own merits.
Evaluate and respect on its own merits -- that is what I suggest for the study of teenage boys and reading -- not to bow down to it, but also not to attack it with suspicion and presumption about the race of the authors, the motivations of the publishers, or long-standing misuse of surveys.
And finally, the focus of my post was on opening up nonfiction to more voices. If as you and others claim readers from under-represented groups particularly connect to books by people with whom they identify, all the more crucial that those authors be invited, encouraged, given every opportunity to lead those same readers any and everywhere -- down into quantum functions and out to the stars, back to Big Bang and forward to Mars -- and every stop, every culture, civilization, religion, art-form, life-story along the way.
Marc Aronson
-----Original Message----- From: Christine Taylor-Butler <kansascitymom_at_earthlink.net> To: ccbc-net ccbc-net <ccbc-net_at_lists.wisc.edu> Sent: Sat, Feb 22, 2014 2:00 pm Subject: Re: [ccbc-net] By, For, About
Just as there is danger in a single story - there is danger in citing a single commercial book published by two white males as the empirical proof devaluing the real life experiences of ethnic people on this thread who ARE and are RAISING the target audience.
The idea that this one research study on boys in general is the definitive voice on what African American boys want in terms of reading is ludicrous. My own experience working with black males in schools suggests that they are turned off on books available because the adults in their lives keep feeding them books in which they are depicted as victims or victimizers. Something reinforced in the media.
So let's agree to disagree. There are many boys who want informational texts. I know - I get a lot of them as college applicants. But I also knew quite a few boys who were secretly reading other books that aren't measured or captured because it's not on an accelerated reader list or not considered a "boy book" or not something they think makes them look manly. And like I said - many people of color don't necessarily tell the truth to white pollsters because past history creates a climate of suspicion.
Sometimes the answer you get depends on who is asking the question.
Just saying………Christine
On Feb 17, 2014, at 10:16 AM, bookmarch_at_aol.com wrote:
I think professor Thomas proposes an excellent research agenda -- and I am mindful that it is time to switch subjects -- however the three categories listed leave out a fourth:
books by members of under-represented groups (thus color, class, sexual orientation, disability, religious faith...) that are expressly not about their own experience. For example, books about math, about world history dealing any time or place (thus not "roots"), about astronomy, biology, geology, physics, chemistry; books about pets, hobbies, or anything and everything that an author might want to investigate and K-12 readers might find interesting. Nonfiction belongs to all of us, and authors of every stripe should be encouraged to explore its limitless universe of possible subjects. Indeed as many of you know, the argument of Reading Don't Fix No Chevys is that a significant cohort of male teenage readers especially from challenging backgrounds want nothing to do with books about themselves and are only interested in books that give them instructions for acting in the world.
Marc Aronson
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 14:58:50 -0500 (EST)
I am sorry but we are going to have to agree to disagree -- civilly. I cannot say strongly enough how misguided and unhelpful it is to say --" two white authors," no, two university professors who conducted a well-regarded and influential study. Is one study the be all and end all, of course not. However it provides a useful insight that was missing from the discussion. Note that in the entire discussion of Do You Have to Be It to Write It every single post has presumed the "it" was fiction, folktales, or picture books. That is why it is crucial to remember that a great deal of literature beloved, and, more to the point, needed, by young readers is nonfiction, where the issues are completely different.
In nonfiction what matters is research, evidence, knowledge, sharing ideas with peers and being open to critique from experts, not who the author is (however that might be defined) -- there is no reason a current self-described African-American would "understand" the experience of an ancestor in 1840 or 1640 better than a Japanese expert who has studied that period. This is a point anthropologists and historians stress over and over again. Just as there is no reason I would know my grandfather's world dealing with pogroms and blood libels as Jew in Tsarist Kiev better than a Hispanic or German expert who is immersed in that period. I specifically say German because you might say that current victims of oppression would be likely to identify with their ancestors, and to resent a person from the dominant or oppressive culture researching and telling their story. Yes I might feel some friction at a German or Russian non-Jewish scholar telling my grandfather's story. But that is my bitterness for me to process. S/he has every right to his/her knowledge and authority which I must evaluate and respect on its own merits.
Evaluate and respect on its own merits -- that is what I suggest for the study of teenage boys and reading -- not to bow down to it, but also not to attack it with suspicion and presumption about the race of the authors, the motivations of the publishers, or long-standing misuse of surveys.
And finally, the focus of my post was on opening up nonfiction to more voices. If as you and others claim readers from under-represented groups particularly connect to books by people with whom they identify, all the more crucial that those authors be invited, encouraged, given every opportunity to lead those same readers any and everywhere -- down into quantum functions and out to the stars, back to Big Bang and forward to Mars -- and every stop, every culture, civilization, religion, art-form, life-story along the way.
Marc Aronson
-----Original Message----- From: Christine Taylor-Butler <kansascitymom_at_earthlink.net> To: ccbc-net ccbc-net <ccbc-net_at_lists.wisc.edu> Sent: Sat, Feb 22, 2014 2:00 pm Subject: Re: [ccbc-net] By, For, About
Just as there is danger in a single story - there is danger in citing a single commercial book published by two white males as the empirical proof devaluing the real life experiences of ethnic people on this thread who ARE and are RAISING the target audience.
The idea that this one research study on boys in general is the definitive voice on what African American boys want in terms of reading is ludicrous. My own experience working with black males in schools suggests that they are turned off on books available because the adults in their lives keep feeding them books in which they are depicted as victims or victimizers. Something reinforced in the media.
So let's agree to disagree. There are many boys who want informational texts. I know - I get a lot of them as college applicants. But I also knew quite a few boys who were secretly reading other books that aren't measured or captured because it's not on an accelerated reader list or not considered a "boy book" or not something they think makes them look manly. And like I said - many people of color don't necessarily tell the truth to white pollsters because past history creates a climate of suspicion.
Sometimes the answer you get depends on who is asking the question.
Just saying………Christine
On Feb 17, 2014, at 10:16 AM, bookmarch_at_aol.com wrote:
I think professor Thomas proposes an excellent research agenda -- and I am mindful that it is time to switch subjects -- however the three categories listed leave out a fourth:
books by members of under-represented groups (thus color, class, sexual orientation, disability, religious faith...) that are expressly not about their own experience. For example, books about math, about world history dealing any time or place (thus not "roots"), about astronomy, biology, geology, physics, chemistry; books about pets, hobbies, or anything and everything that an author might want to investigate and K-12 readers might find interesting. Nonfiction belongs to all of us, and authors of every stripe should be encouraged to explore its limitless universe of possible subjects. Indeed as many of you know, the argument of Reading Don't Fix No Chevys is that a significant cohort of male teenage readers especially from challenging backgrounds want nothing to do with books about themselves and are only interested in books that give them instructions for acting in the world.
Marc Aronson
You are currently subscribed to ccbc-net as: bookmarch_at_aol.com. To post to the list, send message to... ccbc-net_at_lists.wisc.edu To receive messages in digest format, send a message to... ccbc-net-request_at_lists.wisc.edu
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Received on Sat 22 Feb 2014 01:59:15 PM CST
