CCBC-Net Archives
RE: A "no cost" way (my Charles rebuttal)
- Contemporary messages sorted: [ by date ] [ by subject ] [ by author ]
From: Charles Bayless <charles.bayless_at_ttmd.com>
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2014 12:26:59 -0500
I actually think we are in agreement and I am not sure what is getting in the way of that.
I am not defining the hectoring suggestions as ineffective, I am sharing (from my experience as a business executive responsible for sales and participating in conventions) that hectoring sales people is comparatively less successful as a strategy than helping them achieve their sales goals by, for example, bringing them material prospects. I can’t see that as being a controversial proposition. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
I think you are saying the same thing. “If publishers don't get that message - that acquisitions is not currently fulfilling the need of a growing diverse populations” - The problem is that saying there is a market and proving that there is a market are two different activities. Arguing that theoretically there is a market for a product is, in my experience, less effective than showing (with qualified leads and prospects) that there is a market. My suggestion is show them that there is the market that you believe there to be.
Perhaps putting pressure on the sales people will work as well, but I doubt it.
CB
From: Christine Taylor-Butler [mailto:kansascitymom_at_earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 11:43 AM To: ccbc-net Subject: RE: [ccbc-net] A "no cost" way (my Charles rebuttal)
Okay, I'm going to be cantankerous here because as Kathy Bates said in Fried Green Tomatoes "I'm older and have more insurance."
Dearest Charles,
Really? Honestly?
I can't fathom why you'd define these suggestions as ineffective. It isn't counterproductive to apply pressure at a conference nor is it a waste of time to connect with authors and illustrators of color. This is in addition to, not instead of. I've never advocated not putting pressure on publishers directly and redirecting book buying dollars. But you can't buy what you don't know exists. I've been saying that here and elsewhere for years. We get what we measure.
I really grieve for authors and illustrators who are dropping out because they can't break through or can't afford to continue given low royalties and non-existent marketing support. My note was written from both the perspective of a buyer and an author. I have seen how demoralizing it is - first hand - for people of color to pay to attend conferences and conventions in which the BUYERS walk by without a glance because they aren't a "big name". I've seen the light in their eyes when I do - and ask them to tell me about their books. What harm is there in making a connection? You've totally missed some of the heartfelt responses to this call from others on this list who were put in the same position.
My first two suggestions were to put some initial pressure on publishers and the sales force who think they know what we want (and clearly their lack of bestsellers shows those assumptions are specious at best).
But the last was to point out that the target audience (buyers) and the content creators (authors and illustrators) can bypass the system and find each other rather than default to those the publishers choose to fund and showcase (almost always white). PW said bestsellers are designed at acquisitions. For the most part that's true. Ethnic acquisitions are almost always fill-ins and to "round out" the list which is why agents and authors frequently hear "Sorry, we already have one POC on the list." (as if there is a legal limit on minority representation). Those authors who are acquired go mid-list or back-list immediately and are expected to spend their modest advances marketing books for which the publishers and distributors get the lion-share of the revenue. If I'd written a thesis on this business model when I was taking graduate classes at Harvard I'd have flunked.
How many people have personal travel and marketing funds in the bank? Most of my colleagues are turned down by their publishers even when their proposals are accepted for conference workshops. Those individuals come anyway to meet their target audience. Where else can they go where buyers are present in such large quantities?
There are quite a few "acquiring editors" and "Directors" at those booths. Or walking the aisles. And frankly, sales DOES weigh in on acquisitions. So do (or did) chain bookstores. The reps are not stupid and they do take note of the booth activity (at least the smart ones do as evidenced by people who contact me after the conferences). One of my favorite encounters was the ubiquitously clueless publisher (name withheld to protect the guilty) who tried to entice YALSA teens to the booth with the re-released ethnic cover for LIAR by telling them the bi-racial model was from Project Runway. Said one teen, "but she's not dark skinned and this is not nappy hair." (love that kid!).
The point of my post was that with limited budgets people on this list can let authors and illustrators in attendance know they aren't invisible and give them a bit of emotional "return on their investment" while we try to fix the problem from the other side. They're already present on the convention floor - and at the workshops.
And that we can think more broadly about challenging the state of things while "drinking" the free alcohol and "eating" the free hors d'oeuvres at convention receptions meant to celebrate a publisher's ubiquitously* homogenous new releases - something even my daughter's international friends at high school and at college refer to as books about "white people" problems.
This is a crisis. I work in an urban district where the majority of students are entering high school hating reading or with a reading level still at the third grade. They are finding little to like but desperately wanting their own Harry Potters and Hunger Games. This can't just be an prep school academic exercise wrapped around a stock Wharton business school model.
Human connection is why the horribly written Twilight series (sorry to any fan girls and boys listening) garnered such a large following when major award winners often do not. And why as much as I hate that series my two girls own a total of 11 personally autographed copies. (For godsakes she only wrote five books, but we had to replace one that a boy on the debate team borrowed and damaged). Grass roots word of mouth, and the author connecting with her target buyers and fulfilling their reading needs. Period.
There are books that should be added to the literary environment for children, and books that simply fulfill a primal need for exploration, fun and escape. Sometimes they are the same. Often they are not. Hence using already available time at a conference to connect buyers and content creators who seek more of the latter.
If publishers don't get that message - that acquisitions is not currently fulfilling the need of a growing diverse populations - then technology will continue to generate ways for the middle man to simply be eliminated from the process. I dub it - the Tao of the Dinosaur.
...........Christine
*("ubiquitously" thrown in there for all my editor friends who hate adverbs - smile)
-----Original Message----- From: Charles Bayless Sent: Feb 6, 2014 8:40 AM To: ccbc-net_at_lists.wisc.edu, jane_at_kidslikeus.org, 'Christine Taylor-Butler' Subject: RE: [ccbc-net] A "no cost" way to support diversity at ALA, IRA and other conferences - An alternate view
I would like to offer an alternative perspective on the No “cost” way to support diversity. I think what is being suggested is probably counterproductive but there is a far more productive alternative that could be pursued. My experience is that no cost solutions are usually closely correlated with ineffective solutions and are likely to have unintended consequences if there are any consequences at all. My specific concern is that this approach that is being suggested is a little like yelling at the call center tech support guy because your printer won’t work when the real decisions affecting you were of course made by other people elsewhere. It might momentarily make you feel good to yell at the tech guy, but it doesn’t actually solve the problem......
..(edited for space) ....
...If you don’t want to do the work that is likely to make a difference but still want to leverage booth time, then there is an alternative to that as well. .....
You are currently subscribed to ccbc-net as: charles.bayless_at_ttmd.com.
To post to the list, send message to...
ccbc-net_at_lists.wisc.edu
To receive messages in digest format, send a message to...
ccbc-net-request_at_lists.wisc.edu
...and include only this command in the body of the message...
set ccbc-net digest
CCBC-Net Archives
The CCBC-Net archives are available to all CCBC-Net listserv members. The archives are organized by month and year. A list of discussion topics (including month/year) is available at...
http://www.education.wisc.edu/ccbc/ccbcnet/archives.asp
To access the archives, go to...
http://ccbc.education.wisc.edu/ccbc-net
...and enter the following when prompted...
username: ccbc-net password: Look4Posts
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2014 12:26:59 -0500
I actually think we are in agreement and I am not sure what is getting in the way of that.
I am not defining the hectoring suggestions as ineffective, I am sharing (from my experience as a business executive responsible for sales and participating in conventions) that hectoring sales people is comparatively less successful as a strategy than helping them achieve their sales goals by, for example, bringing them material prospects. I can’t see that as being a controversial proposition. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
I think you are saying the same thing. “If publishers don't get that message - that acquisitions is not currently fulfilling the need of a growing diverse populations” - The problem is that saying there is a market and proving that there is a market are two different activities. Arguing that theoretically there is a market for a product is, in my experience, less effective than showing (with qualified leads and prospects) that there is a market. My suggestion is show them that there is the market that you believe there to be.
Perhaps putting pressure on the sales people will work as well, but I doubt it.
CB
From: Christine Taylor-Butler [mailto:kansascitymom_at_earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 11:43 AM To: ccbc-net Subject: RE: [ccbc-net] A "no cost" way (my Charles rebuttal)
Okay, I'm going to be cantankerous here because as Kathy Bates said in Fried Green Tomatoes "I'm older and have more insurance."
Dearest Charles,
Really? Honestly?
I can't fathom why you'd define these suggestions as ineffective. It isn't counterproductive to apply pressure at a conference nor is it a waste of time to connect with authors and illustrators of color. This is in addition to, not instead of. I've never advocated not putting pressure on publishers directly and redirecting book buying dollars. But you can't buy what you don't know exists. I've been saying that here and elsewhere for years. We get what we measure.
I really grieve for authors and illustrators who are dropping out because they can't break through or can't afford to continue given low royalties and non-existent marketing support. My note was written from both the perspective of a buyer and an author. I have seen how demoralizing it is - first hand - for people of color to pay to attend conferences and conventions in which the BUYERS walk by without a glance because they aren't a "big name". I've seen the light in their eyes when I do - and ask them to tell me about their books. What harm is there in making a connection? You've totally missed some of the heartfelt responses to this call from others on this list who were put in the same position.
My first two suggestions were to put some initial pressure on publishers and the sales force who think they know what we want (and clearly their lack of bestsellers shows those assumptions are specious at best).
But the last was to point out that the target audience (buyers) and the content creators (authors and illustrators) can bypass the system and find each other rather than default to those the publishers choose to fund and showcase (almost always white). PW said bestsellers are designed at acquisitions. For the most part that's true. Ethnic acquisitions are almost always fill-ins and to "round out" the list which is why agents and authors frequently hear "Sorry, we already have one POC on the list." (as if there is a legal limit on minority representation). Those authors who are acquired go mid-list or back-list immediately and are expected to spend their modest advances marketing books for which the publishers and distributors get the lion-share of the revenue. If I'd written a thesis on this business model when I was taking graduate classes at Harvard I'd have flunked.
How many people have personal travel and marketing funds in the bank? Most of my colleagues are turned down by their publishers even when their proposals are accepted for conference workshops. Those individuals come anyway to meet their target audience. Where else can they go where buyers are present in such large quantities?
There are quite a few "acquiring editors" and "Directors" at those booths. Or walking the aisles. And frankly, sales DOES weigh in on acquisitions. So do (or did) chain bookstores. The reps are not stupid and they do take note of the booth activity (at least the smart ones do as evidenced by people who contact me after the conferences). One of my favorite encounters was the ubiquitously clueless publisher (name withheld to protect the guilty) who tried to entice YALSA teens to the booth with the re-released ethnic cover for LIAR by telling them the bi-racial model was from Project Runway. Said one teen, "but she's not dark skinned and this is not nappy hair." (love that kid!).
The point of my post was that with limited budgets people on this list can let authors and illustrators in attendance know they aren't invisible and give them a bit of emotional "return on their investment" while we try to fix the problem from the other side. They're already present on the convention floor - and at the workshops.
And that we can think more broadly about challenging the state of things while "drinking" the free alcohol and "eating" the free hors d'oeuvres at convention receptions meant to celebrate a publisher's ubiquitously* homogenous new releases - something even my daughter's international friends at high school and at college refer to as books about "white people" problems.
This is a crisis. I work in an urban district where the majority of students are entering high school hating reading or with a reading level still at the third grade. They are finding little to like but desperately wanting their own Harry Potters and Hunger Games. This can't just be an prep school academic exercise wrapped around a stock Wharton business school model.
Human connection is why the horribly written Twilight series (sorry to any fan girls and boys listening) garnered such a large following when major award winners often do not. And why as much as I hate that series my two girls own a total of 11 personally autographed copies. (For godsakes she only wrote five books, but we had to replace one that a boy on the debate team borrowed and damaged). Grass roots word of mouth, and the author connecting with her target buyers and fulfilling their reading needs. Period.
There are books that should be added to the literary environment for children, and books that simply fulfill a primal need for exploration, fun and escape. Sometimes they are the same. Often they are not. Hence using already available time at a conference to connect buyers and content creators who seek more of the latter.
If publishers don't get that message - that acquisitions is not currently fulfilling the need of a growing diverse populations - then technology will continue to generate ways for the middle man to simply be eliminated from the process. I dub it - the Tao of the Dinosaur.
...........Christine
*("ubiquitously" thrown in there for all my editor friends who hate adverbs - smile)
-----Original Message----- From: Charles Bayless Sent: Feb 6, 2014 8:40 AM To: ccbc-net_at_lists.wisc.edu, jane_at_kidslikeus.org, 'Christine Taylor-Butler' Subject: RE: [ccbc-net] A "no cost" way to support diversity at ALA, IRA and other conferences - An alternate view
I would like to offer an alternative perspective on the No “cost” way to support diversity. I think what is being suggested is probably counterproductive but there is a far more productive alternative that could be pursued. My experience is that no cost solutions are usually closely correlated with ineffective solutions and are likely to have unintended consequences if there are any consequences at all. My specific concern is that this approach that is being suggested is a little like yelling at the call center tech support guy because your printer won’t work when the real decisions affecting you were of course made by other people elsewhere. It might momentarily make you feel good to yell at the tech guy, but it doesn’t actually solve the problem......
..(edited for space) ....
...If you don’t want to do the work that is likely to make a difference but still want to leverage booth time, then there is an alternative to that as well. .....
You are currently subscribed to ccbc-net as: charles.bayless_at_ttmd.com.
To post to the list, send message to...
ccbc-net_at_lists.wisc.edu
To receive messages in digest format, send a message to...
ccbc-net-request_at_lists.wisc.edu
...and include only this command in the body of the message...
set ccbc-net digest
CCBC-Net Archives
The CCBC-Net archives are available to all CCBC-Net listserv members. The archives are organized by month and year. A list of discussion topics (including month/year) is available at...
http://www.education.wisc.edu/ccbc/ccbcnet/archives.asp
To access the archives, go to...
http://ccbc.education.wisc.edu/ccbc-net
...and enter the following when prompted...
username: ccbc-net password: Look4Posts
---
You are currently subscribed to ccbc-net as: ccbc-archive_at_post.education.wisc.edu.
To post to the list, send message to: ccbc-net_at_lists.wisc.edu
To receive messages in digest format, send a message to...
ccbc-net-request_at_lists.wisc.edu
...and include only this command in the body of the message:
set ccbc-net digest
CCBC-Net Archives
The CCBC-Net archives are available to all CCBC-Net listserv members. The archives are organized by month and year. A list of discussion topics (including month/year) is available at http://www.education.wisc.edu/ccbc/ccbcnet/archives.asp
To access the archives, go to:
http://ccbc.education.wisc.edu/ccbc-net
and enter the following:
username: ccbc-net
password: Look4Posts
Received on Thu 06 Feb 2014 11:28:15 AM CST
