CCBC-Net Archives
RE: why citations matter
- Contemporary messages sorted: [ by date ] [ by subject ] [ by author ]
From: Deborah Hopkinson <deborahhopkinson_at_yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 09:00:48 -0700 (PDT)
I would add that experts vetting a book can add a tremendous amount -- and that oftenВ children's authors, rather than just recycling old informat ion, also provide new research and ideas on topics.В I sometimesВ wonder if this is recognized very much outsideВ the field. I am sure t hat is true with other writersВ hereВ and with writers like Candace Fleming, whoВ did incredible original research for herВ book on th e Lincolns and Eleanor Roosevelt.В В В I have used expert vettersВ for both nonfiction as well asВ histori cal fiction (and sometimes several for the same book).В I've alsoВ stumbled upon things that are new or corrections;В while researchin gВ the TriangleВ fire В I found a small errorВ whichВ the Kheel Center at Cornell confirmed and thenВ changed their online ex hibition to reflect; a vetter for my Dear America on the topic pointed me t o one of her PhD candidates who was doing original Italian language researc h into the early labor movement.В В
I asked her to read it also an d Hear My Sorrow reflects Dr. Jennifer Guglielmo's input (she is now at Smi th);В similarly experts at the Lowell Center on history pointed me to new research beyond available secondary academic sources for a book about t he social history of cotton.В В When I ask kids in schools how they research, I always bring upВ talkin g to someone, seeing something with their own eyes, or tracking down an exp ert.В TheВ Internet gives us much easier access to findingВ ex perts who can help us -- if we know how to look and how to evaluate source material.В В В В And that brings us once again back to information literacy.В I do thin k books like the HIVE DETECTIVES in the Scientists in the Field series mode l this in a really wonderful way for readers.В В Deborah Hopkinson VP for Advancement Pacific Northwest College of Art www.deborahhopkinson.com В В
--- On Wed, 10/20/10, Donna German w
rote:
From: Donna German Subject: RE:
why citations matter To: "'Nancy Thalia Reynolds'" , ccbc-net_at_lists.wisc .edu Cc: bookmarch@aol.com Date: Wednesday, October 20, 2010, 8:27 AM
I usually lurk but just have to jump in here. В I personally work with experts in the field to vet all of our books for acc uracy prior to publication. I specifically do not want to work with people with whom the author may have worked as that would just give me the same re search avenues. Over the five or so years we’ve been in business, m ost of the vetting goes very smoothly. I have noticed that some of our vett ers almost give a rubber stamp but that’s not what I look for. I ne ed someone to give us honest feedback. Because our books have the science f ocus, I have found working with educators at zoos, aquariums, nature center s, National Parks, and museums are often the best. Not only do they know th e science behind the subject but they are accustomed to presenting it at a level that children can easily understand. I can think of one or two cases where the vetting brought some serious research issues (or lack thereof) to light and we could correct. В However, we do not put citations in th e books. As someone mentioned yesterd ay, when working with picture books, the “real estate” is q uite expensive. We do, however, put related links on the book’s hom epage so that children and the adults in their lives can learn more and we do try to ensure that the site is a legitimate and accurate site. В
Donna German Editor В Sylvan Dell PublishingВ 612 Johnnie Dodds Blvd., Suite A2 Mount Pleasant, SC В 29464 В 843-971-6722 (off), 877-958-2600 (toll free), 843-216-3804 (fax) В Science and Math through Literature В For more information, please visit our website at:В www.SylvanDellPubl ishing.com
From: Nancy Thalia Reynolds
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 10:20 AM To: ccbc-net_at_lists.wisc.edu Cc: bookmarch@aol.com Subject: Re:
why citations matter В
educators and that none of the advisers objected to the textbook's asserti
В
accurate and unbiased" by a committee of content specialists and teachers. Five Ponds Press has published 14 books that are used in the Virginia publi
В This is an interestingВ story on many levels in addition to the issue o f why citations matter. My understanding is that textbook publishing is qui te profitable. Yet this publisher appears not to have sent the author's tex t out for peer review (to be read and reviewedВ by historians or other scholars in this area), before publishing it. It's unclear whether the Virg inia Dept of Education review required any historians or other scholars to В read the book. В My guess is that textbook publishers have ample resources available to prov ide such a review, but don't feel it is necessary. State budgets these days are at best extremely tight. В Another point: Ms. Masoff has evidently written 14 textbooks for this publi sher that are in use by Virginia public schools. Many authors of series non fiction and textbooks borrow from themselves. They maximize their income by recycling past research (this can lead to interesting copyright issues whe n more than one publisher is involved, but that's beside the point here). T his allows the author to produce more text with less effort in less time, b ut where, as here, factually incorrect information is provided in one text, there's a good chance it will turn up elsewhere in the author's work on th e same subject. В And finally: When the factual error is politically volatile, as here, and n ot widely available in other texts, the chance that such works will get cit ed elsewhere may go up. If an author wishes to establish the existence of b lack Confederate soldiers and only one "vetted" text contains that assertio n, this text is likely to become a prominent "source" for that claim. В Nancy Thalia Reynolds MIXED HERITAGE IN YOUNG ADULT LITERATURE (Scarecrow Press, 2009) В В
----- Original Message -----
From: bookmarch_at_aol.com To: ebattzedek@americanreading.com, ccbc-net@lists.wisc.edu Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 6:41:06 AM Subject: Re:
why citations matter
Anyone who doubts that citations matter, or thinks that in books for young people they are not necessary, should look up this article in today's Washi ngton Post 7974.html?hpid=topnews
"Virginia 4th-grade textbook criticized over claims on black Confederate soldiers"
By Kevin Sieff В
В A 4th grade textbook supposedly vetted and completely approved for us e in the state of Virginia claims that thousands of blacks fought for the S outh during the war -- yet when scholars checked the author's sources it tu rned out she had merely used websites created by Sons of the Confederacy wh o are determined to show that the slavery was not a central issue in the wa r.
В
Sources and citations matter. And I have to admit in some of my books I've used net sources only to have an expert reader show me that those were date d or inaccurate views -- so the very fact that it is so easy for us to find information makes it all the more important that we get real experts to re view our work before we share it.
В
Marc Aronson В
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 09:00:48 -0700 (PDT)
I would add that experts vetting a book can add a tremendous amount -- and that oftenВ children's authors, rather than just recycling old informat ion, also provide new research and ideas on topics.В I sometimesВ wonder if this is recognized very much outsideВ the field. I am sure t hat is true with other writersВ hereВ and with writers like Candace Fleming, whoВ did incredible original research for herВ book on th e Lincolns and Eleanor Roosevelt.В В В I have used expert vettersВ for both nonfiction as well asВ histori cal fiction (and sometimes several for the same book).В I've alsoВ stumbled upon things that are new or corrections;В while researchin gВ the TriangleВ fire В I found a small errorВ whichВ the Kheel Center at Cornell confirmed and thenВ changed their online ex hibition to reflect; a vetter for my Dear America on the topic pointed me t o one of her PhD candidates who was doing original Italian language researc h into the early labor movement.В В
I asked her to read it also an d Hear My Sorrow reflects Dr. Jennifer Guglielmo's input (she is now at Smi th);В similarly experts at the Lowell Center on history pointed me to new research beyond available secondary academic sources for a book about t he social history of cotton.В В When I ask kids in schools how they research, I always bring upВ talkin g to someone, seeing something with their own eyes, or tracking down an exp ert.В TheВ Internet gives us much easier access to findingВ ex perts who can help us -- if we know how to look and how to evaluate source material.В В В В And that brings us once again back to information literacy.В I do thin k books like the HIVE DETECTIVES in the Scientists in the Field series mode l this in a really wonderful way for readers.В В Deborah Hopkinson VP for Advancement Pacific Northwest College of Art www.deborahhopkinson.com В В
--- On Wed, 10/20/10, Donna German w
rote:
From: Donna German Subject: RE:
why citations matter To: "'Nancy Thalia Reynolds'" , ccbc-net_at_lists.wisc .edu Cc: bookmarch@aol.com Date: Wednesday, October 20, 2010, 8:27 AM
I usually lurk but just have to jump in here. В I personally work with experts in the field to vet all of our books for acc uracy prior to publication. I specifically do not want to work with people with whom the author may have worked as that would just give me the same re search avenues. Over the five or so years we’ve been in business, m ost of the vetting goes very smoothly. I have noticed that some of our vett ers almost give a rubber stamp but that’s not what I look for. I ne ed someone to give us honest feedback. Because our books have the science f ocus, I have found working with educators at zoos, aquariums, nature center s, National Parks, and museums are often the best. Not only do they know th e science behind the subject but they are accustomed to presenting it at a level that children can easily understand. I can think of one or two cases where the vetting brought some serious research issues (or lack thereof) to light and we could correct. В However, we do not put citations in th e books. As someone mentioned yesterd ay, when working with picture books, the “real estate” is q uite expensive. We do, however, put related links on the book’s hom epage so that children and the adults in their lives can learn more and we do try to ensure that the site is a legitimate and accurate site. В
Donna German Editor В Sylvan Dell PublishingВ 612 Johnnie Dodds Blvd., Suite A2 Mount Pleasant, SC В 29464 В 843-971-6722 (off), 877-958-2600 (toll free), 843-216-3804 (fax) В Science and Math through Literature В For more information, please visit our website at:В www.SylvanDellPubl ishing.com
From: Nancy Thalia Reynolds
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 10:20 AM To: ccbc-net_at_lists.wisc.edu Cc: bookmarch@aol.com Subject: Re:
why citations matter В
educators and that none of the advisers objected to the textbook's asserti
В
accurate and unbiased" by a committee of content specialists and teachers. Five Ponds Press has published 14 books that are used in the Virginia publi
В This is an interestingВ story on many levels in addition to the issue o f why citations matter. My understanding is that textbook publishing is qui te profitable. Yet this publisher appears not to have sent the author's tex t out for peer review (to be read and reviewedВ by historians or other scholars in this area), before publishing it. It's unclear whether the Virg inia Dept of Education review required any historians or other scholars to В read the book. В My guess is that textbook publishers have ample resources available to prov ide such a review, but don't feel it is necessary. State budgets these days are at best extremely tight. В Another point: Ms. Masoff has evidently written 14 textbooks for this publi sher that are in use by Virginia public schools. Many authors of series non fiction and textbooks borrow from themselves. They maximize their income by recycling past research (this can lead to interesting copyright issues whe n more than one publisher is involved, but that's beside the point here). T his allows the author to produce more text with less effort in less time, b ut where, as here, factually incorrect information is provided in one text, there's a good chance it will turn up elsewhere in the author's work on th e same subject. В And finally: When the factual error is politically volatile, as here, and n ot widely available in other texts, the chance that such works will get cit ed elsewhere may go up. If an author wishes to establish the existence of b lack Confederate soldiers and only one "vetted" text contains that assertio n, this text is likely to become a prominent "source" for that claim. В Nancy Thalia Reynolds MIXED HERITAGE IN YOUNG ADULT LITERATURE (Scarecrow Press, 2009) В В
----- Original Message -----
From: bookmarch_at_aol.com To: ebattzedek@americanreading.com, ccbc-net@lists.wisc.edu Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 6:41:06 AM Subject: Re:
why citations matter
Anyone who doubts that citations matter, or thinks that in books for young people they are not necessary, should look up this article in today's Washi ngton Post 7974.html?hpid=topnews
"Virginia 4th-grade textbook criticized over claims on black Confederate soldiers"
By Kevin Sieff В
В A 4th grade textbook supposedly vetted and completely approved for us e in the state of Virginia claims that thousands of blacks fought for the S outh during the war -- yet when scholars checked the author's sources it tu rned out she had merely used websites created by Sons of the Confederacy wh o are determined to show that the slavery was not a central issue in the wa r.
В
Sources and citations matter. And I have to admit in some of my books I've used net sources only to have an expert reader show me that those were date d or inaccurate views -- so the very fact that it is so easy for us to find information makes it all the more important that we get real experts to re view our work before we share it.
В
Marc Aronson В
---Received on Wed 20 Oct 2010 09:00:48 AM CDT
