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Is there a problem?
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From: Killeen, Erlene <Erlene.Killeen_at_Stoughton.K12.WI.US>
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 08:27:24 -0600
Charles writes: "All I want to know, as a first step, is if there is a problem that needs t o be solved, and the degree and magnitude of the problem."
The people who are experiencing the problem have been writing about it on t his list. Minority Americans have been talking about "the problem" for dec ades. Women have been talking about "the problem" for decades. If one is a member of one of the groups impacted, you feel the problem. If a person is made to feel restricted, ignored, deprived, or under-represented (even i n literature) -- there is a problem.
As a female child of the 50s and 60s, I felt all of those things and that i ncluded what was written in the multitude of book I read and loved. My ste reotypical role in life was laid out for me. This attitude continued into my high school years where careers offerred were teacher, secretary, nurse, or housewife! I knew there was a problem and, while things are improving, I don't think we are there yet with any group!
I am not an academic so I am not about to get into defining the problem or the magnitude. I leave that up to the professors who are encouraged and pa id to do research and write. Think great thoughts!!!
Erlene Bishop Killeen erlene.killeen_at_stoughton.k12.wi.us Stoughton Area Schools 1601 West South Street Stoughton, WI 53589 608-877-5181
________________________________________
From: CCBC-Net digest
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 12:20 AM To: ccbc-net digest recipients Subject: ccbc-net digest: February 20, 2013
CCBC-NET Digest for Wednesday, February 20, 2013.
1. RE: This and that 2. Diversity literature 3. Appreciation of Reading and Diversity 4. CBC Diversity
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: This and that From: Charles Bayless Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 10:24:35 -0500 X-Message-Number: 1
Debbie,
Thanks for the links. This is an excellent example of what I mean by speaking at cross purposes. I am seeking a problem definition and you are offering root causes.
I am asking empirical questions. 1) Is there empirical evidence documentin g the nature and extent of disparate diversity in children's literature (by race, ethnicity, religion, gender, orientation, class, culture, morphology, health, etc. by author and protagonist); 2) Is there empirical evidence documenting the effect of the degree of diversity in children's literature on desirable life outcomes (graduation rates, test scores, educational attainment, employment rate, income, familial stability, morbidity and mortality rates, etc.); and 3) Is there empirical evidence that the disparate degree of diversity is caused by structural impediments in the publishing industry. In other words, is there a real issue, does it have a real measurable consequence, and does the source of the problem reside in the structure of the publishing industry. It is possible that there may be an affirmative answer to all three questions but it needs to be demonstrate d rather than simply assumed.
While there are challenges to collecting the necessary data, in the scheme of things, these questions are reasonably straightforward and I have been surprised that no one has actually documented what is assumed to be a problem. But as far as I am aware no one has done the research to answer those questions.
Your response doesn't address the empirical questions I am asking. Instead , you are offering theoretical explanations for the causes of an assumed problem. To try and be a little clearer, I think you are assuming that there is disparate diversity in children's literature and you are also assuming that that disparate diversity has a deleterious effect on those children falling into any of the underrepresented groups and that that deleterious effect is manifested in measurable shortfalls in desirable life outcomes. With those assumptions in place (and as I said, these assumption s might be right), you are then offering stereotype threat (the Markus Fryber g research) as one possible root case, the efficacy of teacher matching (the Cambium report) as a second explanation and white privilege (the McIntosh article), as a third.
All I want to know, as a first step, is if there is a problem that needs to be solved, and the degree and magnitude of the problem. Once that is clear , then the next step would be to determine the root causes.
Regards
Charles
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Diversity literature From: Elsa Marston Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 10:41:50 -0500 X-Message-Number: 2
I've been following this discussion with much interest, since multicultural--or whatever we call it now--literature is my main area.
Charles Bayless, thank you for your treatise on this whole matter of the ups and downs of concern about diversity literature and the factors that make it difficult to bring about significant change. I hope you are thinking about other places you could try to get this essay published--it's valuable and deserves a wide audience..
In my survey of the comments (admittedly a bit erratic because I'm currently recovering from major surgery), I haven't seen any mention of books about the Arab/Muslim world and Americans of this heritage. This is one group where--in some circles, including high levels of government--it's considered quite okay to "bash," persecute, and promote fear and hatred, under the influence of Islamophobia. That's one reason why I specialize in books about the Arab/Muslim world and try to promote more awareness of real life. There are a fair number of good books now, but much more attention is needed.
Elsa www.elsamarston.com
Elsa www.elsamarston.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Appreciation of Reading and Diversity From: Charles Bayless Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 12:20:53 -0500 X-Message-Number: 3
One of the pleasures of being a reader is that of serendipity when unlikely things become linked owing to juxtaposition. A friend earlier this week sent me a link to an hour video of Justice Thomas speaking with students at Harvard Law School. Pretty far afield from my interests but out of courtes y I watched the first five minutes; and then the whole thing. It is surprising how many elements of our conversation on diversity over the past couple of weeks pop up in his comments. In one man there is an astonishing pluralism. Given our turn towards humor, there is also a lot of storytelling and gentle wit. You might be interested:
&v=heQjKdHu1P4#!
There is a lot of talk about law and the operations of the court so I have pulled out the elements most likely to appeal.
Minute Marker and Topics
5-10 The value of reading and the origin of his love of reading in the Jim Crow South. An appreciation of Librarians.
19-23 The value of arguments
25-26 Storytelling
45-51 Virtue and the importance of doing well in order to do good
53-55 Intellectual diversity
57-1:01 Importance of inclusiveness not only in actions but in writing . Style of writing as a barrier. Differences between oral communication and written communication
1:01 Role of ruthless editing in good communication
1:02-1:05 Importance of diversity of experience
1:05-1:09 The reading influences on his life and work
1:09 Language from the perspective of a Supreme Court Justice whose native tongue is Geechee.
Charles
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: CBC Diversity From: cbcdiversity Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 16:27:00 -0500 X-Message-Number: 4
Hello CCBC-Net readers,
Thank you for bringing CBC Diversity into this conversation. The CBC is a small (5 person) nonprofit trade association that services the needs of our member publishers. The CBC Diversity Initiative was developed in response to a need perceived by brilliant and compassionate publishing professionals from several publishing houses represented by the CBC. We're happy to see that our efforts (through good and not so good comments) have been recognized. Thank you, Cheryl, for your post in support of CBC Diversity an d unparalleled skill in informing the public about the real goals of our initiative. Thank you, Charles and Maggie, for pointing out the importance of well-meaning intentions and supporting what you want to see more of. And thank you to all the participants in this conversation for discussing this problem and trying to constructively figure out a way for change to take shape. CBC Diversity is in this with all of you.
It's been difficult to read and remain silent through most of this conversation but we did not want to preemptively chime in while the initiative was still growing, morphing, and refining with the surrounding climate. As Cheryl stated, CBC Diversity is just really getting its legs, celebrating its 1st birthday three weeks ago. The initiative will continue to grow and improve the longer it is around and it's important to hear what interested people want and need so that we can fine-tune our offerings to the best of our ability while still staying true to our organization's mission.
There has been much talk about our Goodreads list of late and, like most things, this list started with the best intentions in February 2011.
*Historical Background about the Goodreads List*
As a nonprofit trade association it is our obligation to promote the books that our members produce. Our sole purpose as a nonprofit organization is t o support and further the reach of our members. We do have a varying scale of memberships from Associate Member for very small presses (of which we have a number of members) to full membership (Regular Members) and we do have in place various discounts for new members, out of town members, etc. We encourage all children's book publishers interested in membership to contac t us directly about membership opportunities, including rates, and the myriad benefits of membership, before deciding we are price prohibitive.
As a trade association, it seems natural and reasonable that the booklists we compile represent the books offered by our members. For the Goodreads list, a call is made to our members to include ALL of the books they feel will fit on one or more of the 56 unique tags provided to them on Goodreads . They also have the option to include new tags to better categorize their books. The CBC Diversity Committee is not responsible for making quality-based selections of the books on the list or maintaining the list for any other purpose than to bring awareness that there are many diverse books in existence and here is a selection.
If our publishers do not submit all of their appropriate books then we cannot possibly know about all of them. We urge the public to send us recommendations through Goodreads to help supplement the list if there are books that we have missed from our member publishers (such as Return to Sender which is published by a member), but we ultimately look to publisher s for the information. As it was shared earlier, we will add books that are pointed out to us that have diverse content and are published by a member publisher, but only when brought to our attention. You can find a list of our members through the link on our Goodreads profile.
The CBC Diversity bookshelf on Goodreads is intended as a resource but we d o not suggest that it is the end-all-be-all list. To be clear, it is not intended to be a qualitative list. It is a way of showing that there are more books out there than people may know of (even within the confines of our list) and this is just one place to find some of them. As much as we want to be inclusive, CBC Diversity has never stated that this was a comprehensive list. If more lists are created, the CBC Diversity blog will link to them on the resources.
*New Developments for the Goodreads List*
A formal announcement will be made later in the week, but CBC Diversity is very happy to share that we are opening up the CBC Diversity Goodreads Bookshelf to non-member publishers for a nominal fee of $100 per year. Non CBC members should contact me at ayanna.coleman_at_cbcbooks.org and I will sen d the appropriate spreadsheet to them to add their books to the CBC Diversity Bookshelf. Like our members, there will be no limit to how many books you can include on the spreadsheet, but there are some things CBC Diversity cannot control when it comes to Goodreads. Mainly 1) the publisher is responsible for contacting Goodreads to make sure their books can be found within the Goodreads database so that CBC Diversity can then find and add the books to our list and 2) the publisher is responsible for tagging their books so that they will end up on the correct bookshelf within the overall CBC Diversity list. More about the opening of the CBC Diversity Goodreads list will be available on our blog, www.cbcbdiversity.com,
soon.
One person commented earlier that we should not depend on CBC Diversity, an d that person is correct. We cannot depend on one person or entity to make al l the change. CBC Diversity is just trying to be an agent of change. We're doing that by activating those within the publishing industry and trying to collaborate with others outside of it. Caroline Ward, our esteemed moderato r at the ALA Midwinter Panel, stated something interesting that afternoon. There hasn't been a discussion revolving around diversity stemming from within the publishing industry since she can remember. We want to see more discussions like this, we want to be a part of more discussions like this, and we want to work together with many different organizations to create th e change that everyone is looking for. The goal is to create a more inclusive children's publishing industry that includes more authors, illustrators, an d employees from all different backgrounds who can help create more good children's books for every child. It makes
sense that we should all work together, support each other, and encourage what is out there and encourage more actions to take shape.
And to add to the topic at hand, some of the CBC staffers' favorite multicultural children's books that feature a wonderfully funny voice include:
Alvin Ho: Allergic to Camping, Hiking, and Other Natural Disasters by Lenor e Look, mentioned in Uma's article (MG)
American Born Chinese by Gene Luen Yang
Bad Kitty by Michele Jaffe (YA)
The Dance Class series by Beka (MG)
Hereville: How Mirka Got Her Sword by Barry Deutsch (MG)
Millicent Min, Girl Genius by Lisa Yee, which won the Sid Fleischman Humor Award (MG)
Pickle: The (Formerly) Anonymous Prank Club of Fountain Point Middle School by Kim Baker (MG)
It's important to remember that not all books containing diversity need to be about diversity. Many kids just want to see themselves or experience the real world (which is a diverse world) in the books they read; I know I craved it growing up. Oftentimes funny books have the license to take the "issues" out and just let the character be their hilarious, diverse selves.
Ayanna
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 08:27:24 -0600
Charles writes: "All I want to know, as a first step, is if there is a problem that needs t o be solved, and the degree and magnitude of the problem."
The people who are experiencing the problem have been writing about it on t his list. Minority Americans have been talking about "the problem" for dec ades. Women have been talking about "the problem" for decades. If one is a member of one of the groups impacted, you feel the problem. If a person is made to feel restricted, ignored, deprived, or under-represented (even i n literature) -- there is a problem.
As a female child of the 50s and 60s, I felt all of those things and that i ncluded what was written in the multitude of book I read and loved. My ste reotypical role in life was laid out for me. This attitude continued into my high school years where careers offerred were teacher, secretary, nurse, or housewife! I knew there was a problem and, while things are improving, I don't think we are there yet with any group!
I am not an academic so I am not about to get into defining the problem or the magnitude. I leave that up to the professors who are encouraged and pa id to do research and write. Think great thoughts!!!
Erlene Bishop Killeen erlene.killeen_at_stoughton.k12.wi.us Stoughton Area Schools 1601 West South Street Stoughton, WI 53589 608-877-5181
________________________________________
From: CCBC-Net digest
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 12:20 AM To: ccbc-net digest recipients Subject: ccbc-net digest: February 20, 2013
CCBC-NET Digest for Wednesday, February 20, 2013.
1. RE: This and that 2. Diversity literature 3. Appreciation of Reading and Diversity 4. CBC Diversity
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: This and that From: Charles Bayless Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 10:24:35 -0500 X-Message-Number: 1
Debbie,
Thanks for the links. This is an excellent example of what I mean by speaking at cross purposes. I am seeking a problem definition and you are offering root causes.
I am asking empirical questions. 1) Is there empirical evidence documentin g the nature and extent of disparate diversity in children's literature (by race, ethnicity, religion, gender, orientation, class, culture, morphology, health, etc. by author and protagonist); 2) Is there empirical evidence documenting the effect of the degree of diversity in children's literature on desirable life outcomes (graduation rates, test scores, educational attainment, employment rate, income, familial stability, morbidity and mortality rates, etc.); and 3) Is there empirical evidence that the disparate degree of diversity is caused by structural impediments in the publishing industry. In other words, is there a real issue, does it have a real measurable consequence, and does the source of the problem reside in the structure of the publishing industry. It is possible that there may be an affirmative answer to all three questions but it needs to be demonstrate d rather than simply assumed.
While there are challenges to collecting the necessary data, in the scheme of things, these questions are reasonably straightforward and I have been surprised that no one has actually documented what is assumed to be a problem. But as far as I am aware no one has done the research to answer those questions.
Your response doesn't address the empirical questions I am asking. Instead , you are offering theoretical explanations for the causes of an assumed problem. To try and be a little clearer, I think you are assuming that there is disparate diversity in children's literature and you are also assuming that that disparate diversity has a deleterious effect on those children falling into any of the underrepresented groups and that that deleterious effect is manifested in measurable shortfalls in desirable life outcomes. With those assumptions in place (and as I said, these assumption s might be right), you are then offering stereotype threat (the Markus Fryber g research) as one possible root case, the efficacy of teacher matching (the Cambium report) as a second explanation and white privilege (the McIntosh article), as a third.
All I want to know, as a first step, is if there is a problem that needs to be solved, and the degree and magnitude of the problem. Once that is clear , then the next step would be to determine the root causes.
Regards
Charles
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Diversity literature From: Elsa Marston Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 10:41:50 -0500 X-Message-Number: 2
I've been following this discussion with much interest, since multicultural--or whatever we call it now--literature is my main area.
Charles Bayless, thank you for your treatise on this whole matter of the ups and downs of concern about diversity literature and the factors that make it difficult to bring about significant change. I hope you are thinking about other places you could try to get this essay published--it's valuable and deserves a wide audience..
In my survey of the comments (admittedly a bit erratic because I'm currently recovering from major surgery), I haven't seen any mention of books about the Arab/Muslim world and Americans of this heritage. This is one group where--in some circles, including high levels of government--it's considered quite okay to "bash," persecute, and promote fear and hatred, under the influence of Islamophobia. That's one reason why I specialize in books about the Arab/Muslim world and try to promote more awareness of real life. There are a fair number of good books now, but much more attention is needed.
Elsa www.elsamarston.com
Elsa www.elsamarston.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Appreciation of Reading and Diversity From: Charles Bayless Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 12:20:53 -0500 X-Message-Number: 3
One of the pleasures of being a reader is that of serendipity when unlikely things become linked owing to juxtaposition. A friend earlier this week sent me a link to an hour video of Justice Thomas speaking with students at Harvard Law School. Pretty far afield from my interests but out of courtes y I watched the first five minutes; and then the whole thing. It is surprising how many elements of our conversation on diversity over the past couple of weeks pop up in his comments. In one man there is an astonishing pluralism. Given our turn towards humor, there is also a lot of storytelling and gentle wit. You might be interested:
&v=heQjKdHu1P4#!
There is a lot of talk about law and the operations of the court so I have pulled out the elements most likely to appeal.
Minute Marker and Topics
5-10 The value of reading and the origin of his love of reading in the Jim Crow South. An appreciation of Librarians.
19-23 The value of arguments
25-26 Storytelling
45-51 Virtue and the importance of doing well in order to do good
53-55 Intellectual diversity
57-1:01 Importance of inclusiveness not only in actions but in writing . Style of writing as a barrier. Differences between oral communication and written communication
1:01 Role of ruthless editing in good communication
1:02-1:05 Importance of diversity of experience
1:05-1:09 The reading influences on his life and work
1:09 Language from the perspective of a Supreme Court Justice whose native tongue is Geechee.
Charles
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: CBC Diversity From: cbcdiversity Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 16:27:00 -0500 X-Message-Number: 4
Hello CCBC-Net readers,
Thank you for bringing CBC Diversity into this conversation. The CBC is a small (5 person) nonprofit trade association that services the needs of our member publishers. The CBC Diversity Initiative was developed in response to a need perceived by brilliant and compassionate publishing professionals from several publishing houses represented by the CBC. We're happy to see that our efforts (through good and not so good comments) have been recognized. Thank you, Cheryl, for your post in support of CBC Diversity an d unparalleled skill in informing the public about the real goals of our initiative. Thank you, Charles and Maggie, for pointing out the importance of well-meaning intentions and supporting what you want to see more of. And thank you to all the participants in this conversation for discussing this problem and trying to constructively figure out a way for change to take shape. CBC Diversity is in this with all of you.
It's been difficult to read and remain silent through most of this conversation but we did not want to preemptively chime in while the initiative was still growing, morphing, and refining with the surrounding climate. As Cheryl stated, CBC Diversity is just really getting its legs, celebrating its 1st birthday three weeks ago. The initiative will continue to grow and improve the longer it is around and it's important to hear what interested people want and need so that we can fine-tune our offerings to the best of our ability while still staying true to our organization's mission.
There has been much talk about our Goodreads list of late and, like most things, this list started with the best intentions in February 2011.
*Historical Background about the Goodreads List*
As a nonprofit trade association it is our obligation to promote the books that our members produce. Our sole purpose as a nonprofit organization is t o support and further the reach of our members. We do have a varying scale of memberships from Associate Member for very small presses (of which we have a number of members) to full membership (Regular Members) and we do have in place various discounts for new members, out of town members, etc. We encourage all children's book publishers interested in membership to contac t us directly about membership opportunities, including rates, and the myriad benefits of membership, before deciding we are price prohibitive.
As a trade association, it seems natural and reasonable that the booklists we compile represent the books offered by our members. For the Goodreads list, a call is made to our members to include ALL of the books they feel will fit on one or more of the 56 unique tags provided to them on Goodreads . They also have the option to include new tags to better categorize their books. The CBC Diversity Committee is not responsible for making quality-based selections of the books on the list or maintaining the list for any other purpose than to bring awareness that there are many diverse books in existence and here is a selection.
If our publishers do not submit all of their appropriate books then we cannot possibly know about all of them. We urge the public to send us recommendations through Goodreads to help supplement the list if there are books that we have missed from our member publishers (such as Return to Sender which is published by a member), but we ultimately look to publisher s for the information. As it was shared earlier, we will add books that are pointed out to us that have diverse content and are published by a member publisher, but only when brought to our attention. You can find a list of our members through the link on our Goodreads profile.
The CBC Diversity bookshelf on Goodreads is intended as a resource but we d o not suggest that it is the end-all-be-all list. To be clear, it is not intended to be a qualitative list. It is a way of showing that there are more books out there than people may know of (even within the confines of our list) and this is just one place to find some of them. As much as we want to be inclusive, CBC Diversity has never stated that this was a comprehensive list. If more lists are created, the CBC Diversity blog will link to them on the resources.
*New Developments for the Goodreads List*
A formal announcement will be made later in the week, but CBC Diversity is very happy to share that we are opening up the CBC Diversity Goodreads Bookshelf to non-member publishers for a nominal fee of $100 per year. Non CBC members should contact me at ayanna.coleman_at_cbcbooks.org and I will sen d the appropriate spreadsheet to them to add their books to the CBC Diversity Bookshelf. Like our members, there will be no limit to how many books you can include on the spreadsheet, but there are some things CBC Diversity cannot control when it comes to Goodreads. Mainly 1) the publisher is responsible for contacting Goodreads to make sure their books can be found within the Goodreads database so that CBC Diversity can then find and add the books to our list and 2) the publisher is responsible for tagging their books so that they will end up on the correct bookshelf within the overall CBC Diversity list. More about the opening of the CBC Diversity Goodreads list will be available on our blog, www.cbcbdiversity.com,
soon.
One person commented earlier that we should not depend on CBC Diversity, an d that person is correct. We cannot depend on one person or entity to make al l the change. CBC Diversity is just trying to be an agent of change. We're doing that by activating those within the publishing industry and trying to collaborate with others outside of it. Caroline Ward, our esteemed moderato r at the ALA Midwinter Panel, stated something interesting that afternoon. There hasn't been a discussion revolving around diversity stemming from within the publishing industry since she can remember. We want to see more discussions like this, we want to be a part of more discussions like this, and we want to work together with many different organizations to create th e change that everyone is looking for. The goal is to create a more inclusive children's publishing industry that includes more authors, illustrators, an d employees from all different backgrounds who can help create more good children's books for every child. It makes
sense that we should all work together, support each other, and encourage what is out there and encourage more actions to take shape.
And to add to the topic at hand, some of the CBC staffers' favorite multicultural children's books that feature a wonderfully funny voice include:
Alvin Ho: Allergic to Camping, Hiking, and Other Natural Disasters by Lenor e Look, mentioned in Uma's article (MG)
American Born Chinese by Gene Luen Yang
Bad Kitty by Michele Jaffe (YA)
The Dance Class series by Beka (MG)
Hereville: How Mirka Got Her Sword by Barry Deutsch (MG)
Millicent Min, Girl Genius by Lisa Yee, which won the Sid Fleischman Humor Award (MG)
Pickle: The (Formerly) Anonymous Prank Club of Fountain Point Middle School by Kim Baker (MG)
It's important to remember that not all books containing diversity need to be about diversity. Many kids just want to see themselves or experience the real world (which is a diverse world) in the books they read; I know I craved it growing up. Oftentimes funny books have the license to take the "issues" out and just let the character be their hilarious, diverse selves.
Ayanna
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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--- Ayanna Coleman | Events Associate & Librarian The Children's Book Council, Inc. | Every Child a Reader, Inc. (CBC Diversity Liaison) --- END OF DIGEST ---Received on Thu 21 Feb 2013 08:27:24 AM CST
