CCBC-Net Archives
[CCBC-Net] Hide and Seek
- Contemporary messages sorted: [ by date ] [ by subject ] [ by author ]
From: Queeline at aol.com <Queeline>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:50:01 EDT
I am wondering, given this entire discussion, if we as a whole are giving readers--of any age--enough credit. Of course kids read things differently than adult, both as individuals and a group...just as adults read things d ifferently given who more specifically they are--their upbringing, life experiences, times they grew up, messages they received, and so on. And since kids are aware on some level that the books they read (just like the commercials they see, TV programs and movies they watch, or messages they get in the home) are put out there by adults, they already on some level have a sense of where the message is coming from, and that may or may not go into their decision of what they are going to do with it.(E.g. Very moralistic writing).
It may be cliche, but I think that for whatever purpose we write a book (to
entertain, to inform, to get in touch with, or respond to our inner child--whatever), a child (or anyone for that matter--child or adult) is going to take from it what they need/want and leave the rest. If a particular child is struggling with an issue or looking for characters to relate to, s/he is ideally going to find that ally in his/her literary "friends." An adult may try to manipulate in whatever s/he writes, but that is not to say that the child is going to be manipulated. They actually can and do think for themselves! That is why, earlier in this discussion, even an adult reviewer got something wholly different out of a list member's book than the author actually intended. We do with the words what we want. A parent may say (in words or actions) "the world is a scary place" or "the world is an exciting and magical place"--just as a child's book may send either of these messages. Is that to say that the child will automatically see the world in whatever way the book, or even the parent, wants him or her to? S/he can internalize it, rebel against it, reinterpret it to suit whatever s/he is dealing with or wants to--or simply see the work of fiction as a piece of entertainment and not go beyond that emotionally. We as authors simply put it out there as it works for us (and, granted, to the extent our editors, publishers, and even internal editors allow us to), and then our readers will do with it what they will. Manipulation to me is conscious and intended (e.g. commercials, etc.)--but even then there is no guarantee that the message-receiver will necessarily buy into it. So sure, you can argue that at some level we are all trying to be "manipulative"--to offer our own view of the world or of various issues and hope that others buy into it as well. But that is not to say that they necessarily will.
You wrote, Perry, in one of your posts that you are a tad cynical about the extent to which most of us of any age actually do escape the intentions books or films have on us or have experiences vastly different from the ones authors hope we'll have. Perhaps that is where I most take issue with this premise. I think I took to books as a kid because I
was looking for people (or at least characters) who I related to in a way that I could not fully articulate to friends and family. I must say that I did find quite a number in the books I read, which was largely why I think I became such an avid reader as a young person. Did I get out of these books and stories what their creator intended? I didn't know and didn't really care. I got out of them--the ones I liked most--what I was looking for. And I guess that was good enough for me!
Jackie Glasthal Author/Editor/Writing Instructor
(mailto:ccbc-net at lists.education.wisc.edu)
In a message dated 7/23/2009 3:57:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, perry_nodelman at shaw.ca writes:
Sorry, I forgot to answer this question yesterday:
On 22-Jul-09, at 10:54 AM, Kristin Butcher wrote:
>
> However, I do have a question. I have not read your book, so this may
> very well be addressed there, but after all this discussion I wonder
> -- Can we as adults write anything or draw anything that doesn't
> contain the hidden adult?
I suspect the answer is no, we can't. We are who we are, and our words express who we are whether we want them to or not. If nothing else, they speak of the assumptions of the time and place we live in and so take for granted that we don't stop to to consider their actual merits. And in writing for children, we can imagine ourselves to be accessing something childlike in ourselves as we do it--but since we're still the ones who are doing that imagining, what we imagine is inevitably inflected with our adult view of what we recall, our current understanding of it in the light of later experience. For successful writers, inevitably, that later experience includes a knowledge of what works as children's literature--what specific shapings and formulations of our childhood memories will sell in the current world of books for young people--to an editor, to a librarian, to a parent, even, eventually, to a child or two. However accurate, memories that too far transcended the conventions of this kind of writing as currently understood would not, I'm convinced, find a market or an audience as a text for young people.
Perry
_____________ Perry Nodelman http://pernodel.wordpress.com/
Book Trailers: The Hidden Adult: Defining Children's Literature http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3t7JAfPQeA The Ghosthunters2: The Curse of the Evening Eye http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qapDE1Kwnis The Ghosthunters I: The Proof that Ghosts Exist http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw0ow7oQV7k
_______________________________________________ CCBC-Net mailing list CCBC-Net at lists.education.wisc.edu Visit this link to read archives or to unsubscribe... http://lists.education.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/ccbc-net
**************A bad credit score is 600 & below. Checking won't affect your score. See now!
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377105x1201454426/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgI D=62&bcd=JulyBadfooterNO62)
Received on Fri 24 Jul 2009 12:50:01 PM CDT
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:50:01 EDT
I am wondering, given this entire discussion, if we as a whole are giving readers--of any age--enough credit. Of course kids read things differently than adult, both as individuals and a group...just as adults read things d ifferently given who more specifically they are--their upbringing, life experiences, times they grew up, messages they received, and so on. And since kids are aware on some level that the books they read (just like the commercials they see, TV programs and movies they watch, or messages they get in the home) are put out there by adults, they already on some level have a sense of where the message is coming from, and that may or may not go into their decision of what they are going to do with it.(E.g. Very moralistic writing).
It may be cliche, but I think that for whatever purpose we write a book (to
entertain, to inform, to get in touch with, or respond to our inner child--whatever), a child (or anyone for that matter--child or adult) is going to take from it what they need/want and leave the rest. If a particular child is struggling with an issue or looking for characters to relate to, s/he is ideally going to find that ally in his/her literary "friends." An adult may try to manipulate in whatever s/he writes, but that is not to say that the child is going to be manipulated. They actually can and do think for themselves! That is why, earlier in this discussion, even an adult reviewer got something wholly different out of a list member's book than the author actually intended. We do with the words what we want. A parent may say (in words or actions) "the world is a scary place" or "the world is an exciting and magical place"--just as a child's book may send either of these messages. Is that to say that the child will automatically see the world in whatever way the book, or even the parent, wants him or her to? S/he can internalize it, rebel against it, reinterpret it to suit whatever s/he is dealing with or wants to--or simply see the work of fiction as a piece of entertainment and not go beyond that emotionally. We as authors simply put it out there as it works for us (and, granted, to the extent our editors, publishers, and even internal editors allow us to), and then our readers will do with it what they will. Manipulation to me is conscious and intended (e.g. commercials, etc.)--but even then there is no guarantee that the message-receiver will necessarily buy into it. So sure, you can argue that at some level we are all trying to be "manipulative"--to offer our own view of the world or of various issues and hope that others buy into it as well. But that is not to say that they necessarily will.
You wrote, Perry, in one of your posts that you are a tad cynical about the extent to which most of us of any age actually do escape the intentions books or films have on us or have experiences vastly different from the ones authors hope we'll have. Perhaps that is where I most take issue with this premise. I think I took to books as a kid because I
was looking for people (or at least characters) who I related to in a way that I could not fully articulate to friends and family. I must say that I did find quite a number in the books I read, which was largely why I think I became such an avid reader as a young person. Did I get out of these books and stories what their creator intended? I didn't know and didn't really care. I got out of them--the ones I liked most--what I was looking for. And I guess that was good enough for me!
Jackie Glasthal Author/Editor/Writing Instructor
(mailto:ccbc-net at lists.education.wisc.edu)
In a message dated 7/23/2009 3:57:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, perry_nodelman at shaw.ca writes:
Sorry, I forgot to answer this question yesterday:
On 22-Jul-09, at 10:54 AM, Kristin Butcher wrote:
>
> However, I do have a question. I have not read your book, so this may
> very well be addressed there, but after all this discussion I wonder
> -- Can we as adults write anything or draw anything that doesn't
> contain the hidden adult?
I suspect the answer is no, we can't. We are who we are, and our words express who we are whether we want them to or not. If nothing else, they speak of the assumptions of the time and place we live in and so take for granted that we don't stop to to consider their actual merits. And in writing for children, we can imagine ourselves to be accessing something childlike in ourselves as we do it--but since we're still the ones who are doing that imagining, what we imagine is inevitably inflected with our adult view of what we recall, our current understanding of it in the light of later experience. For successful writers, inevitably, that later experience includes a knowledge of what works as children's literature--what specific shapings and formulations of our childhood memories will sell in the current world of books for young people--to an editor, to a librarian, to a parent, even, eventually, to a child or two. However accurate, memories that too far transcended the conventions of this kind of writing as currently understood would not, I'm convinced, find a market or an audience as a text for young people.
Perry
_____________ Perry Nodelman http://pernodel.wordpress.com/
Book Trailers: The Hidden Adult: Defining Children's Literature http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3t7JAfPQeA The Ghosthunters2: The Curse of the Evening Eye http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qapDE1Kwnis The Ghosthunters I: The Proof that Ghosts Exist http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw0ow7oQV7k
_______________________________________________ CCBC-Net mailing list CCBC-Net at lists.education.wisc.edu Visit this link to read archives or to unsubscribe... http://lists.education.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/ccbc-net
**************A bad credit score is 600 & below. Checking won't affect your score. See now!
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377105x1201454426/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgI D=62&bcd=JulyBadfooterNO62)
Received on Fri 24 Jul 2009 12:50:01 PM CDT
