CCBC-Net Archives
[CCBC-Net] Hide and Seek
- Contemporary messages sorted: [ by date ] [ by subject ] [ by author ]
From: James Elliott <libraryjim>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 07:20:36 -0400 (EDT)
The main part of the quote that stood out for me was this part:
He reads for his own pleasure rather than to impart knowledge or correct the opinions of others. Above all, he is guided by an instinct to create for himself, out of whatever odds and ends he can come by, some kind of whole.
For me, that IS the Child reader. The adult reader may do this, but brings other 'baggage' to the table.
Jim E.
----- Original Message ----- From: Perry Nodelman <perry_nodelman at shaw.ca> To: CCBC -Net <ccbc-net at lists.education.wisc.edu> Sent: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:28:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [CCBC-Net] Hide and Seek
On 23-Jul-09, at 3:22 PM, James Elliott wrote:
> I found this quote in "Ex Libris" by Anne Fadiman, who quotes from
> Virginia Woolfe, that I think is appropriate to the discussion.
> Substitute 'child reader' for 'common reader', and 'adult for
> scholar', and one comes close to the difference of which we are
> speaking:
>
> "The common reader, she said, 'differs from the critic and the
> scholar. He is worse educated, and nature has not gifted him so
> generously. He reads for his own pleasure rather than to impart
> knowledge or correct the opinions of others. Above all, he is guided
> by an instinct to create for himself, out of whatever odds and ends
> he can come by, some kind of whole.'"1
I might, in a stretch, agree that there's some truth in this as a description of critics and scholars (although heaven knows I've met enough of those in my time who were not nearly as gifted by nature nor as well educated as one might have hoped; and I'm constantly aware of how very little I know myself about almost anything). But I'm definitely not willing to accept that child readers are like this description of common readers. Some, perhaps, may be; many, surely are not. Many children are not without natural gifts, many I've known have been gifted generously. Many children are in the process of being quite well educated, and many more would be better educated if the adults in charge of their education believed that to be a good thing and helped make it happen. Many children, surely, not only read for pleasure but also, sometimes, to find out things that they then take great pleasure in imparting to others, sometimes in order to correct the others' opinions. Children, in other words, are sometimes critics and scholars, just as, sometimes, critics and scholars behave in ways we might consider childish. What bothers me here is the idea that children are someone generally or generically without the ability to think more or do more than act by some kind of uninformed instinct, just because they're children. We all, at whatever age, use whatever we know to create for ourselves, of of whatever odds and ends or impressive-sounding theories we know, some kind of whole. A lot of children do it more wisely than a lot of adults do. Also, a lot of adults do it more wisely than a lot of children do.
To me, I guess, this quote reveals how very located Woolf was in the class assumptions of her own privileged upbringing. I don't see how applying these sort of assumptions to child readers is all that helpful.
Perry
_____________ Perry Nodelman http://pernodel.wordpress.com/
Book Trailers: The Hidden Adult: Defining Children's Literature http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3t7JAfPQeA The Ghosthunters2: The Curse of the Evening Eye http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qapDE1Kwnis The Ghosthunters I: The Proof that Ghosts Exist http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw0ow7oQV7k
_______________________________________________ CCBC-Net mailing list CCBC-Net at lists.education.wisc.edu Visit this link to read archives or to unsubscribe... http://lists.education.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/ccbc-net
Received on Fri 24 Jul 2009 06:20:36 AM CDT
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 07:20:36 -0400 (EDT)
The main part of the quote that stood out for me was this part:
He reads for his own pleasure rather than to impart knowledge or correct the opinions of others. Above all, he is guided by an instinct to create for himself, out of whatever odds and ends he can come by, some kind of whole.
For me, that IS the Child reader. The adult reader may do this, but brings other 'baggage' to the table.
Jim E.
----- Original Message ----- From: Perry Nodelman <perry_nodelman at shaw.ca> To: CCBC -Net <ccbc-net at lists.education.wisc.edu> Sent: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:28:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [CCBC-Net] Hide and Seek
On 23-Jul-09, at 3:22 PM, James Elliott wrote:
> I found this quote in "Ex Libris" by Anne Fadiman, who quotes from
> Virginia Woolfe, that I think is appropriate to the discussion.
> Substitute 'child reader' for 'common reader', and 'adult for
> scholar', and one comes close to the difference of which we are
> speaking:
>
> "The common reader, she said, 'differs from the critic and the
> scholar. He is worse educated, and nature has not gifted him so
> generously. He reads for his own pleasure rather than to impart
> knowledge or correct the opinions of others. Above all, he is guided
> by an instinct to create for himself, out of whatever odds and ends
> he can come by, some kind of whole.'"1
I might, in a stretch, agree that there's some truth in this as a description of critics and scholars (although heaven knows I've met enough of those in my time who were not nearly as gifted by nature nor as well educated as one might have hoped; and I'm constantly aware of how very little I know myself about almost anything). But I'm definitely not willing to accept that child readers are like this description of common readers. Some, perhaps, may be; many, surely are not. Many children are not without natural gifts, many I've known have been gifted generously. Many children are in the process of being quite well educated, and many more would be better educated if the adults in charge of their education believed that to be a good thing and helped make it happen. Many children, surely, not only read for pleasure but also, sometimes, to find out things that they then take great pleasure in imparting to others, sometimes in order to correct the others' opinions. Children, in other words, are sometimes critics and scholars, just as, sometimes, critics and scholars behave in ways we might consider childish. What bothers me here is the idea that children are someone generally or generically without the ability to think more or do more than act by some kind of uninformed instinct, just because they're children. We all, at whatever age, use whatever we know to create for ourselves, of of whatever odds and ends or impressive-sounding theories we know, some kind of whole. A lot of children do it more wisely than a lot of adults do. Also, a lot of adults do it more wisely than a lot of children do.
To me, I guess, this quote reveals how very located Woolf was in the class assumptions of her own privileged upbringing. I don't see how applying these sort of assumptions to child readers is all that helpful.
Perry
_____________ Perry Nodelman http://pernodel.wordpress.com/
Book Trailers: The Hidden Adult: Defining Children's Literature http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3t7JAfPQeA The Ghosthunters2: The Curse of the Evening Eye http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qapDE1Kwnis The Ghosthunters I: The Proof that Ghosts Exist http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw0ow7oQV7k
_______________________________________________ CCBC-Net mailing list CCBC-Net at lists.education.wisc.edu Visit this link to read archives or to unsubscribe... http://lists.education.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/ccbc-net
Received on Fri 24 Jul 2009 06:20:36 AM CDT
