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[CCBC-Net] Just to clarify...
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From: Wendy Burton <burtonwl>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 13:34:58 -0700 (PDT)
Debbie, I don't think you're sounding hypocritical at all, and I appreciate your writing about an issue you're still struggling with.
I confess that I haven't read this book yet, though I'm probably going to start it today or tomorrow!--but based on what people have said here, I'm getting an idea of where the controversy stems from (but am trying to withhold judgment until I read the book).
I see a strong parallel here between Alexie's use of
"faggot" as, yes, a typical and sometimes friendly slur used between boys, and the use of racist slurs about American Indians used in many of the books you criticize. I know people say all the time that the vocabulary used about American Indians in those books is accurate to what people would have said, but it's still troublesome. I'm stealing from my own future blog post here, but: I used to think the use of those slurs in old books didn't matter much, especially when taken in context. I thought, "kids know better than to say things like that"--I did, when I was a kid. Then I read an anecdote on your site about the movie Pocahontas--it contains a song with the lyrics
"savages--barely even human". The song is very clearly meant to show that the Jamestown colonists were bad and racist, and I believe almost all children understand that. Yet that song was STILL, in the anecdote recounted, used to taunt an American Indian girl on the playground.
The people who wrote the song surely meant it in the best possible way; surely they thought they were teaching kids a lesson about our less-than-heroic colonial ancestors. Perhaps they did--but what they ALSO did was put those words, "savages--barely even human", in children's mouths. It doesn't matter at that point how the lyrics were meant; only how they're being used.
To return to Alexie and the word "faggot"--yes, accurate to some groups of children (I can't tell you how much trouble my brothers would have gotten in if they had ever said such a thing and my parents heard about it, and I don't think they would have said it), but is it necessary for the story? Is it legitimizing the use of these words in a negative context? Or does it make an effort toward normalizing the term, so that for a moment at least, that "insult" doesn't seem like much of an insult at all? (I've been called similar things since I was a teenager, and once I was old enough to have a little perspective, I just laughed and said "Do you really think that's some kind of insult?") These are the questions I'll be asking myself as I read the book.
It is always hard when a bit of doubt sneaks in about a book that we love (and sometimes, a book we happen to be quite invested in). I know that that's happened to me many times, whether the issue is racism, homophobia, sexism, or just plain inaccuracy.
Wendy burtonwl at yahoo.com http://sixboxesofbooks.blogspot.com
--- Debbie Reese <debreese at illinois.edu> wrote:
> KT,
>
> Thanks for your response.
>
> I've touted the book on my site, in lectures,
> because I like it very much.
>
> The colleague who I was talking with is gay. Part
> of what spurred my email to ccbc is the news of
> the 11 year old boy in Massachusetts who
> committed suicide. News reports are that he was
> taunted as being gay. I thought again about the
> exchange between Rowdy and Junior where "faggot"
> is tossed about. My colleagues concern with the
> language, and the young boy's suicide, are
> colliding for me right now. Hence, I am thinking
> about the book.
>
> For the person who emailed me privately, I too am
> Native and have endured (and endure) the same
> struggles that Alexie has. Please know that
> raising this question unnerves me a great deal. I
> really really like Alexie's work. I've taught the
> book in my courses at UIUC, and for years I've
> been showing his film BUSINESS OF FANCYDANCING.
>
> My question should not be read as a suggestion
> that I think Alexie is homophobic. A big part of
> the joy I feel over his book is how realistic it
> is. I agree, my nephews talk just like Rowdy and
> Junior, but I don't WANT them to speak the word
> "faggot" as they do. I'm sounding hypocritical,
> aren't I?
>
> Debbie
>
>
> Visit my Internet resource:
> American Indians in Children's Literature
> http://americanindiansinchildrensliterature.net
>
> Debbie A. Reese (Namb??? O'-ween-ge')
> Assistant Professor, American Indian Studies
> University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
> Native American House, Room 2005
> 1204 West Nevada Street, MC-138
> Urbana, Illinois 61801
>
> Email: debreese at illinois.edu
> TEL 217-265-9885
> FAX 217-265-9880
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CCBC-Net mailing list
> CCBC-Net at lists.education.wisc.edu
> Visit this link to read archives or to
> unsubscribe...
>
http://lists.education.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/ccbc-net
>
Received on Fri 10 Apr 2009 03:34:58 PM CDT
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 13:34:58 -0700 (PDT)
Debbie, I don't think you're sounding hypocritical at all, and I appreciate your writing about an issue you're still struggling with.
I confess that I haven't read this book yet, though I'm probably going to start it today or tomorrow!--but based on what people have said here, I'm getting an idea of where the controversy stems from (but am trying to withhold judgment until I read the book).
I see a strong parallel here between Alexie's use of
"faggot" as, yes, a typical and sometimes friendly slur used between boys, and the use of racist slurs about American Indians used in many of the books you criticize. I know people say all the time that the vocabulary used about American Indians in those books is accurate to what people would have said, but it's still troublesome. I'm stealing from my own future blog post here, but: I used to think the use of those slurs in old books didn't matter much, especially when taken in context. I thought, "kids know better than to say things like that"--I did, when I was a kid. Then I read an anecdote on your site about the movie Pocahontas--it contains a song with the lyrics
"savages--barely even human". The song is very clearly meant to show that the Jamestown colonists were bad and racist, and I believe almost all children understand that. Yet that song was STILL, in the anecdote recounted, used to taunt an American Indian girl on the playground.
The people who wrote the song surely meant it in the best possible way; surely they thought they were teaching kids a lesson about our less-than-heroic colonial ancestors. Perhaps they did--but what they ALSO did was put those words, "savages--barely even human", in children's mouths. It doesn't matter at that point how the lyrics were meant; only how they're being used.
To return to Alexie and the word "faggot"--yes, accurate to some groups of children (I can't tell you how much trouble my brothers would have gotten in if they had ever said such a thing and my parents heard about it, and I don't think they would have said it), but is it necessary for the story? Is it legitimizing the use of these words in a negative context? Or does it make an effort toward normalizing the term, so that for a moment at least, that "insult" doesn't seem like much of an insult at all? (I've been called similar things since I was a teenager, and once I was old enough to have a little perspective, I just laughed and said "Do you really think that's some kind of insult?") These are the questions I'll be asking myself as I read the book.
It is always hard when a bit of doubt sneaks in about a book that we love (and sometimes, a book we happen to be quite invested in). I know that that's happened to me many times, whether the issue is racism, homophobia, sexism, or just plain inaccuracy.
Wendy burtonwl at yahoo.com http://sixboxesofbooks.blogspot.com
--- Debbie Reese <debreese at illinois.edu> wrote:
> KT,
>
> Thanks for your response.
>
> I've touted the book on my site, in lectures,
> because I like it very much.
>
> The colleague who I was talking with is gay. Part
> of what spurred my email to ccbc is the news of
> the 11 year old boy in Massachusetts who
> committed suicide. News reports are that he was
> taunted as being gay. I thought again about the
> exchange between Rowdy and Junior where "faggot"
> is tossed about. My colleagues concern with the
> language, and the young boy's suicide, are
> colliding for me right now. Hence, I am thinking
> about the book.
>
> For the person who emailed me privately, I too am
> Native and have endured (and endure) the same
> struggles that Alexie has. Please know that
> raising this question unnerves me a great deal. I
> really really like Alexie's work. I've taught the
> book in my courses at UIUC, and for years I've
> been showing his film BUSINESS OF FANCYDANCING.
>
> My question should not be read as a suggestion
> that I think Alexie is homophobic. A big part of
> the joy I feel over his book is how realistic it
> is. I agree, my nephews talk just like Rowdy and
> Junior, but I don't WANT them to speak the word
> "faggot" as they do. I'm sounding hypocritical,
> aren't I?
>
> Debbie
>
>
> Visit my Internet resource:
> American Indians in Children's Literature
> http://americanindiansinchildrensliterature.net
>
> Debbie A. Reese (Namb??? O'-ween-ge')
> Assistant Professor, American Indian Studies
> University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
> Native American House, Room 2005
> 1204 West Nevada Street, MC-138
> Urbana, Illinois 61801
>
> Email: debreese at illinois.edu
> TEL 217-265-9885
> FAX 217-265-9880
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CCBC-Net mailing list
> CCBC-Net at lists.education.wisc.edu
> Visit this link to read archives or to
> unsubscribe...
>
http://lists.education.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/ccbc-net
>
Received on Fri 10 Apr 2009 03:34:58 PM CDT
