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[CCBC-Net] Anne Carroll Moore
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From: Elliott BatTzedek <ebattzedek>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 08:37:45 -0400
I teach a course in Contemporary Issues in Children's Literature and Publishing in a small English and Publishing graduate program at Rosemont College outside of Philadelphia. I've been so frustrated that I've never had a book to use as a text for my students that talked about the field in terms of the history of publishing, so have been waiting and waiting since I saw the first pre-pub notices about Minders. I devoured it, and all the postings here, and have learned so much.
The first night of each class I give a history of the early years of publishing for children, covering horn books et al, but then really honing in on the early part of the 20th century. This year, I introduced them to two women -- Lucy Sprague Mitchell and Anne Carroll Moore (okay, mainly from information I'd taken in from Leonard's earlier work). We talked a lot about the shared and competing values of these women, and how each so profoundly shaped the field. Then, throughout the semester, as we talked books and ideas, I kept asking them, "So, who would like this book or idea, Lucy or Anne?" which led to all kinds of interesting discussions about what comes and goes, what's new and what only seems new. Now I can't wait to teach again, for the depth of those conversations now that they'll have Minders as a text will be even better. I only hope that more traditional "children's literature" courses will take it in on, for I really don't understand how all those literature text books exist without ever talk ing about editors and publishers and librarians and how they co-created this world.
Leonard -- I really really want to see a picture of ACM with Nicholas. Do any exist that you've found?
Elliott batTzedek Curriculum and Collections Developer Children's Literacy Initiative
________________________________________ From: ccbc-net-bounces at ccbc.education.wisc.edu [ccbc-net-bounces at ccbc.education.wisc.edu] On Behalf Of leonardsma at aol.com [leonardsma at aol.com] Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 10:55 PM To: jlamb at nypl.org Cc: ccbc-net-bounces at ccbc.education.wisc.edu; ccbc-net at lists.education.wisc.edu Subject: Re: [CCBC-Net] Anne Carroll Moore
I don't see how the Stuart Little dust-up could have been the turning-point that the New Yorker article claims it was. I think that was just a journalist's dramatic thing to say. It could be argued that the publication of The Poky Little Puppy in 1942 made a bigger difference: because that book reached so many more people, because it led the charge in a new way to market and sell children's books in America, a new way that has become more and more mainstream ever since, and because its success in the face of strong opposition from the critics of the time demonstrated that those critics were in fact far from all-powerful
?There's no doubt that, along with editors and authors, librarians played and continue to play a major role in shaping the children's book world we have come to know. If librarians hadn't decided that service to children should be an important part of their work (in the 1880s it wasn't obvious to all that this should be so), the market would not have formed that prompted publishers to establish their juvenile departments in the 1920s, 30s, and after. And the creation of the Newbery and Caldecott Medals (to give just one more example) made such a difference. So many of the artists and writers who entered the field in the 1930s and 40s did so by chance or by default: Robert McCloskey as an aspiring watercolorist and muralist because his hometown friend's aunt happened to be May Massee of Viking, who happened to be willing to offer him life-changing advice about a promising but unpublishable portfolio. Margaret Wise Brown because she happened to meet Lucy Sprague Mitchell at Ban
k Street, and get caught up in an experimental training program for teachers that included exercises in writing for children. The medals gave talented people something definite to strive for, and helped boost the prestige of a field desperately in need of a lift in the value conferred on it by the culture. Nearly all the work of the many people I wrote about in MINDERS was accomplished against the resistance of the larger culture, which tended to be dismissive of efforts on behalf of children and their books. I think librarians now provide a crucial corrective to the commercial pressures at work in the more retail-focused book world of today; librarians are still reading the new books as they come along, and writing about them, and championing the ones they like. Anne Carroll Moore had her quirks, but she looks better and better for the fact that she took children's books so seriously, and insisted that they were a key element of culture.
Leonard S. Marcus
54 Willow Street, #2A
Brooklyn, New York 11201
tel 718 596-1897
e-mail leonardsma at aol.com
web www.leonardmarcus.com
-----Original Message-----
From: jlamb at nypl.org
To: leonardsma at aol.com
Cc: ccbc-net at lists.education.wisc.edu; ccbc-net-bounces at ccbc.education.wisc.edu; juliecummins at earthlink.net
Sent: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 12:00 pm
Subject: Re: [CCBC-Net] Anne Carroll Moore
Between reading MINDERS and these discussions, ?I feel as though you have been leading us through a grad course these past two weeks Leonard. ?Just one of the really marvelous things has been your effort to keep us grounded in the broader context within which this facinating cast of characters lived. ?Certainly ACM was not the only fiesty character involved with shaping the discourse about what is and is not good/appropriate/appealing for children ? - ? ?which leads me to question JL's premise that ACM's tiff with EBW actually reshaped children's literature as the industry moved in to the post-war twentieth century. ? It is one thing to speculate, as JL does, but would the contents of some private correspondence and possibly a bit of water cooler gossip, really have even reached the attention of more than a small circle of people at that time? What do you think? ? From what I have gleaned so far, it seems to me as though it is really the writers and the editors,
many with strong personalities of their own, who were doing the reshaping - ?
Thanks so much Leonard for all the time and care you have taken with this ?- ?
Jeanne Lamb
Assistant Coordinator
Office of Children's Services
The New York Public Library
455 Fifth Avenue
New York, NY ?10016
(212) 340-0904
Re: [CCBC-Net] Anne Carroll Moore
leonardsma to: juliecummins, ccbc-net 07/28/2008 07:57 AM
Sent by: ccbc-net-bounces at ccbc.education.wisc.edu
?I would also like to point out, as critic Elizabeth Devereaux and others have done elsewhere, that the Stuart Little episode came late in Moore's long, eventful career. White's first children's book appeared four years after Moore's mandatory reirement from NY Public in October, 1941.
Leonard S. Marcus
54 Willow Street, #2A
Brooklyn, New York 11201
tel 718 596-1897
e-mail leonardsma at aol.com
web www.leonardmarcus.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Julie <juliecummins at earthlink.net>
To: ccbc-net at lists.education.wisc.edu
Sent: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 8:17 pm
Subject: [CCBC-Net] Anne Carroll Moore
?
? ?I've been following this thread on early children's books editors and Anne ? Carroll Moore with great interest since I am one who followed in her very large ? footprints as the seventh Coordinator of Children's Services at New York Public ? Library. Her mantle was heavy and yes, without doubt, she had her quirks. ? Despite the barbs aimed at her character, she was a significant and major ? influence on children's publishing. ? ?Speaking for her 'good' side, I offer the following "respects" that she taught ? to all new children's librarians. Frances Clarke Sayers cites them in her ? biography of ACM, titled ANNE CARROLL MOORE published in 1972 by Atheneum. ? ?"The Four Respects" ? 1. Respect for children. Think of and respect them as individuals and neither ? talk down to them or call them pet names. Consider their requests and to satisfy ? them. ? ?2.Respect for books. They were to be well-written and none rewritten in words of ? one syllable. All books we
re to be sincere
ly and clearly written. ? ?3.The third respect was for fellow workers. Remember that 'we' were part of the ? whole. Branch work concerned all staff and all were to receive due credit and ? respect for their share in it. Know something of the other library departments, ? ask for and give cooperation. ? ?4. The fourth respect was for the professional standing of children's ? librarians. They were not to be dictated to by others against their better ? judgement. ACM felt children's librarians were the best trained and most ? informed staff members on the subject of children's books and reading. ? ?And how appropriate these 'respects' are still today! ? ?Let's just say the old gal had her good points. ? ?Julie Cummins ?Former Coordinator of Children's Services, ?The New York Public Library ?_______________________________________________ ?CCBC-Net mailing list ?CCBC-Net at ccbc.education.wisc.edu ?Visit this link to read archives or to unsubscribe... ?http://ccbc.edu
cation.wisc.edu
/mailman/listinfo/ccbc-net ? ?
?
_______________________________________________
CCBC-Net mailing list
CCBC-Net at ccbc.education.wisc.edu
Visit this link to read archives or to unsubscribe...
http://ccbc.education.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/ccbc-net
_______________________________________________ CCBC-Net mailing list CCBC-Net at ccbc.education.wisc.edu Visit this link to read archives or to unsubscribe... http://ccbc.education.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/ccbc-net
Received on Tue 29 Jul 2008 07:37:45 AM CDT
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 08:37:45 -0400
I teach a course in Contemporary Issues in Children's Literature and Publishing in a small English and Publishing graduate program at Rosemont College outside of Philadelphia. I've been so frustrated that I've never had a book to use as a text for my students that talked about the field in terms of the history of publishing, so have been waiting and waiting since I saw the first pre-pub notices about Minders. I devoured it, and all the postings here, and have learned so much.
The first night of each class I give a history of the early years of publishing for children, covering horn books et al, but then really honing in on the early part of the 20th century. This year, I introduced them to two women -- Lucy Sprague Mitchell and Anne Carroll Moore (okay, mainly from information I'd taken in from Leonard's earlier work). We talked a lot about the shared and competing values of these women, and how each so profoundly shaped the field. Then, throughout the semester, as we talked books and ideas, I kept asking them, "So, who would like this book or idea, Lucy or Anne?" which led to all kinds of interesting discussions about what comes and goes, what's new and what only seems new. Now I can't wait to teach again, for the depth of those conversations now that they'll have Minders as a text will be even better. I only hope that more traditional "children's literature" courses will take it in on, for I really don't understand how all those literature text books exist without ever talk ing about editors and publishers and librarians and how they co-created this world.
Leonard -- I really really want to see a picture of ACM with Nicholas. Do any exist that you've found?
Elliott batTzedek Curriculum and Collections Developer Children's Literacy Initiative
________________________________________ From: ccbc-net-bounces at ccbc.education.wisc.edu [ccbc-net-bounces at ccbc.education.wisc.edu] On Behalf Of leonardsma at aol.com [leonardsma at aol.com] Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 10:55 PM To: jlamb at nypl.org Cc: ccbc-net-bounces at ccbc.education.wisc.edu; ccbc-net at lists.education.wisc.edu Subject: Re: [CCBC-Net] Anne Carroll Moore
I don't see how the Stuart Little dust-up could have been the turning-point that the New Yorker article claims it was. I think that was just a journalist's dramatic thing to say. It could be argued that the publication of The Poky Little Puppy in 1942 made a bigger difference: because that book reached so many more people, because it led the charge in a new way to market and sell children's books in America, a new way that has become more and more mainstream ever since, and because its success in the face of strong opposition from the critics of the time demonstrated that those critics were in fact far from all-powerful
?There's no doubt that, along with editors and authors, librarians played and continue to play a major role in shaping the children's book world we have come to know. If librarians hadn't decided that service to children should be an important part of their work (in the 1880s it wasn't obvious to all that this should be so), the market would not have formed that prompted publishers to establish their juvenile departments in the 1920s, 30s, and after. And the creation of the Newbery and Caldecott Medals (to give just one more example) made such a difference. So many of the artists and writers who entered the field in the 1930s and 40s did so by chance or by default: Robert McCloskey as an aspiring watercolorist and muralist because his hometown friend's aunt happened to be May Massee of Viking, who happened to be willing to offer him life-changing advice about a promising but unpublishable portfolio. Margaret Wise Brown because she happened to meet Lucy Sprague Mitchell at Ban
k Street, and get caught up in an experimental training program for teachers that included exercises in writing for children. The medals gave talented people something definite to strive for, and helped boost the prestige of a field desperately in need of a lift in the value conferred on it by the culture. Nearly all the work of the many people I wrote about in MINDERS was accomplished against the resistance of the larger culture, which tended to be dismissive of efforts on behalf of children and their books. I think librarians now provide a crucial corrective to the commercial pressures at work in the more retail-focused book world of today; librarians are still reading the new books as they come along, and writing about them, and championing the ones they like. Anne Carroll Moore had her quirks, but she looks better and better for the fact that she took children's books so seriously, and insisted that they were a key element of culture.
Leonard S. Marcus
54 Willow Street, #2A
Brooklyn, New York 11201
tel 718 596-1897
e-mail leonardsma at aol.com
web www.leonardmarcus.com
-----Original Message-----
From: jlamb at nypl.org
To: leonardsma at aol.com
Cc: ccbc-net at lists.education.wisc.edu; ccbc-net-bounces at ccbc.education.wisc.edu; juliecummins at earthlink.net
Sent: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 12:00 pm
Subject: Re: [CCBC-Net] Anne Carroll Moore
Between reading MINDERS and these discussions, ?I feel as though you have been leading us through a grad course these past two weeks Leonard. ?Just one of the really marvelous things has been your effort to keep us grounded in the broader context within which this facinating cast of characters lived. ?Certainly ACM was not the only fiesty character involved with shaping the discourse about what is and is not good/appropriate/appealing for children ? - ? ?which leads me to question JL's premise that ACM's tiff with EBW actually reshaped children's literature as the industry moved in to the post-war twentieth century. ? It is one thing to speculate, as JL does, but would the contents of some private correspondence and possibly a bit of water cooler gossip, really have even reached the attention of more than a small circle of people at that time? What do you think? ? From what I have gleaned so far, it seems to me as though it is really the writers and the editors,
many with strong personalities of their own, who were doing the reshaping - ?
Thanks so much Leonard for all the time and care you have taken with this ?- ?
Jeanne Lamb
Assistant Coordinator
Office of Children's Services
The New York Public Library
455 Fifth Avenue
New York, NY ?10016
(212) 340-0904
Re: [CCBC-Net] Anne Carroll Moore
leonardsma to: juliecummins, ccbc-net 07/28/2008 07:57 AM
Sent by: ccbc-net-bounces at ccbc.education.wisc.edu
?I would also like to point out, as critic Elizabeth Devereaux and others have done elsewhere, that the Stuart Little episode came late in Moore's long, eventful career. White's first children's book appeared four years after Moore's mandatory reirement from NY Public in October, 1941.
Leonard S. Marcus
54 Willow Street, #2A
Brooklyn, New York 11201
tel 718 596-1897
e-mail leonardsma at aol.com
web www.leonardmarcus.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Julie <juliecummins at earthlink.net>
To: ccbc-net at lists.education.wisc.edu
Sent: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 8:17 pm
Subject: [CCBC-Net] Anne Carroll Moore
?
? ?I've been following this thread on early children's books editors and Anne ? Carroll Moore with great interest since I am one who followed in her very large ? footprints as the seventh Coordinator of Children's Services at New York Public ? Library. Her mantle was heavy and yes, without doubt, she had her quirks. ? Despite the barbs aimed at her character, she was a significant and major ? influence on children's publishing. ? ?Speaking for her 'good' side, I offer the following "respects" that she taught ? to all new children's librarians. Frances Clarke Sayers cites them in her ? biography of ACM, titled ANNE CARROLL MOORE published in 1972 by Atheneum. ? ?"The Four Respects" ? 1. Respect for children. Think of and respect them as individuals and neither ? talk down to them or call them pet names. Consider their requests and to satisfy ? them. ? ?2.Respect for books. They were to be well-written and none rewritten in words of ? one syllable. All books we
re to be sincere
ly and clearly written. ? ?3.The third respect was for fellow workers. Remember that 'we' were part of the ? whole. Branch work concerned all staff and all were to receive due credit and ? respect for their share in it. Know something of the other library departments, ? ask for and give cooperation. ? ?4. The fourth respect was for the professional standing of children's ? librarians. They were not to be dictated to by others against their better ? judgement. ACM felt children's librarians were the best trained and most ? informed staff members on the subject of children's books and reading. ? ?And how appropriate these 'respects' are still today! ? ?Let's just say the old gal had her good points. ? ?Julie Cummins ?Former Coordinator of Children's Services, ?The New York Public Library ?_______________________________________________ ?CCBC-Net mailing list ?CCBC-Net at ccbc.education.wisc.edu ?Visit this link to read archives or to unsubscribe... ?http://ccbc.edu
cation.wisc.edu
/mailman/listinfo/ccbc-net ? ?
?
_______________________________________________
CCBC-Net mailing list
CCBC-Net at ccbc.education.wisc.edu
Visit this link to read archives or to unsubscribe...
http://ccbc.education.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/ccbc-net
_______________________________________________ CCBC-Net mailing list CCBC-Net at ccbc.education.wisc.edu Visit this link to read archives or to unsubscribe... http://ccbc.education.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/ccbc-net
Received on Tue 29 Jul 2008 07:37:45 AM CDT
