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[CCBC-Net] CCBC-Net Digest, Vol 33, Issue 4
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From: 4joyces at mchsi.com <4joyces>
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2008 19:49:06 +0000
Fascinating discussion!
I am torn between Lee's "Read it and stop--go on to math", the sentiment of which I love, and wanting kids to discuss poems in order to focus more fully on them. When I am teaching in an elementary classroom, the period after reading a poem aloud is one of reflection. I ask students to tell me words they liked, what they think the mood of the poem is, why a certain phrase has been used. But I try to bring it back to the poem in every case: I ask them to back up their opinions with examples from the poem. I am hoping this shows them how to read carefully, to savor a poem. And it also shows other students what can be there, beneath the surface, that they might not have noticed--and thus could not enjoy. All of this helps them write poetry as well.
I LOVE it when a student points out something in one of my own poems that I never noticed. What a delightful feeling!
Joyce Sidman www.joycesidman.com
---------------------- Original Message: --------------------- From: Randall.W.Wright at comcast.net To: ccbc-net at ccbc.ad.education.wisc.edu Subject: Re: [CCBC-Net] CCBC-Net Digest, Vol 33, Issue 4 Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 19:15:26 +0000
> Perhaps the professor was right. And maybe Miller was playing a joke. Or maybe
> the story IS apocryphal. But as an author, when I write a scene in a novel,
> filler or not, it is born somewhere in my imagination and experience. I find
> "hidden" meanings all the time in my own work, so why shouldn't the reader.
> Creativity doesn't just come from the concsious/conscious/cousious (where's my
> spell check when I need it--told you, I'm a creative thinker not a speller--ah,
> here it is: conscious). It also comes from that place we authors often claim for
> our own, even though if our readers didn't have that same place, they wouldn't
> connect with the work (IMHO). The author's skill comes in committing that
> creativity to paper.
>
> The reader brings her/his experience to the written word, else how could an
> author make a reader smell/taste/touch the things written about, yet it happens
> all the time. The same applies to emotional import in the work. This is not news
> to any of you, I'm sure. I'm just a late bloomer in figuring these things out,
> after a whole life of just letting the concepts work without understanding why.
>
> I must admit, however, that unless I get some sort of meaning from a first
> reading, I'm loath to give a poem a second try to get to the depths of meaning
> that might be there. This from the author of "The Geezer in Our Freezer"
> Bloomsbury Fall 2009. A love poem.
>
> Randall Wright
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: James Elliott <libraryjim at embarqmail.com>
>
> > There was an old story (possibly apocryphal) about a class that was critiquing
> > an Arthur Miller (I think!) Play. For the assignment, the professor asked the
> > class to analyze a certain scene, and explain the hidden
> > meanings/messages/social commentary Miller put into the passage.
> >
> > One of the students decided to try an unorthodox approach to the assignment,
> and
> > wrote to Arthur Miller asking him about the passage. Miller responded (I
> > paraphrase):
> >
> > "I merely used that scene for filler, to transition from one view to another.
> > There was no underlying message or hidden meaning contained therein."
> >
> > So the student included that in the paper, footnoted, and attached a copy of
> the
> > letter as an appendix. But when the student got the paper back, graded, he'd
> > made an "F" because that couldn't possibly be right since, after all, the
> > professor saw all those messages in the very relevant key passage of the play!
> >
> > So, I hear ya!
> >
> > Jim Elliott
> > North Florida, USA
> >
> > "Libraries allow children to ask questions about the world and find the
> answers.
> > And the wonderful thing is that once a child learns to use a library, the
> doors
> > to learning are always open ... every child in America should have access to a
> > well-stocked school or community library"
> > --Laura Bush, First Lady of the United States
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Kristy Dempsey
> > To: WriterBabe
> > Cc: CCBC Net
> > Sent: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 14:10:19 -0400 (EDT)
> > Subject: Re: [CCBC-Net] CCBC-Net Digest, Vol 33, Issue 4
> >
> >
> > But I also think that in the classroom, it's easy to put meaning into
> > authors' mouths that might not have been intended, or at the very least
> > to assume it was purposeful when it might have just been coincidental
> > during the writing process. I think this potentially complicates the
> > creation of their own poetry, too, for children, if they get the
> > impression that all poetry must be full of layers of meaning and devices
> > they don't yet understand, or it's not "good" poetry.
> >
> > Kristy Dempsey
> > Belo Horizonte, Brazil
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CCBC-Net mailing list
> > CCBC-Net at ccbc.education.wisc.edu
> > Visit this link to read archives or to unsubscribe...
> > http://ccbc.education.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/ccbc-net
> _______________________________________________
> CCBC-Net mailing list
> CCBC-Net at ccbc.education.wisc.edu
> Visit this link to read archives or to unsubscribe...
> http://ccbc.education.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/ccbc-net
Received on Fri 04 Apr 2008 02:49:06 PM CDT
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2008 19:49:06 +0000
Fascinating discussion!
I am torn between Lee's "Read it and stop--go on to math", the sentiment of which I love, and wanting kids to discuss poems in order to focus more fully on them. When I am teaching in an elementary classroom, the period after reading a poem aloud is one of reflection. I ask students to tell me words they liked, what they think the mood of the poem is, why a certain phrase has been used. But I try to bring it back to the poem in every case: I ask them to back up their opinions with examples from the poem. I am hoping this shows them how to read carefully, to savor a poem. And it also shows other students what can be there, beneath the surface, that they might not have noticed--and thus could not enjoy. All of this helps them write poetry as well.
I LOVE it when a student points out something in one of my own poems that I never noticed. What a delightful feeling!
Joyce Sidman www.joycesidman.com
---------------------- Original Message: --------------------- From: Randall.W.Wright at comcast.net To: ccbc-net at ccbc.ad.education.wisc.edu Subject: Re: [CCBC-Net] CCBC-Net Digest, Vol 33, Issue 4 Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 19:15:26 +0000
> Perhaps the professor was right. And maybe Miller was playing a joke. Or maybe
> the story IS apocryphal. But as an author, when I write a scene in a novel,
> filler or not, it is born somewhere in my imagination and experience. I find
> "hidden" meanings all the time in my own work, so why shouldn't the reader.
> Creativity doesn't just come from the concsious/conscious/cousious (where's my
> spell check when I need it--told you, I'm a creative thinker not a speller--ah,
> here it is: conscious). It also comes from that place we authors often claim for
> our own, even though if our readers didn't have that same place, they wouldn't
> connect with the work (IMHO). The author's skill comes in committing that
> creativity to paper.
>
> The reader brings her/his experience to the written word, else how could an
> author make a reader smell/taste/touch the things written about, yet it happens
> all the time. The same applies to emotional import in the work. This is not news
> to any of you, I'm sure. I'm just a late bloomer in figuring these things out,
> after a whole life of just letting the concepts work without understanding why.
>
> I must admit, however, that unless I get some sort of meaning from a first
> reading, I'm loath to give a poem a second try to get to the depths of meaning
> that might be there. This from the author of "The Geezer in Our Freezer"
> Bloomsbury Fall 2009. A love poem.
>
> Randall Wright
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: James Elliott <libraryjim at embarqmail.com>
>
> > There was an old story (possibly apocryphal) about a class that was critiquing
> > an Arthur Miller (I think!) Play. For the assignment, the professor asked the
> > class to analyze a certain scene, and explain the hidden
> > meanings/messages/social commentary Miller put into the passage.
> >
> > One of the students decided to try an unorthodox approach to the assignment,
> and
> > wrote to Arthur Miller asking him about the passage. Miller responded (I
> > paraphrase):
> >
> > "I merely used that scene for filler, to transition from one view to another.
> > There was no underlying message or hidden meaning contained therein."
> >
> > So the student included that in the paper, footnoted, and attached a copy of
> the
> > letter as an appendix. But when the student got the paper back, graded, he'd
> > made an "F" because that couldn't possibly be right since, after all, the
> > professor saw all those messages in the very relevant key passage of the play!
> >
> > So, I hear ya!
> >
> > Jim Elliott
> > North Florida, USA
> >
> > "Libraries allow children to ask questions about the world and find the
> answers.
> > And the wonderful thing is that once a child learns to use a library, the
> doors
> > to learning are always open ... every child in America should have access to a
> > well-stocked school or community library"
> > --Laura Bush, First Lady of the United States
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Kristy Dempsey
> > To: WriterBabe
> > Cc: CCBC Net
> > Sent: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 14:10:19 -0400 (EDT)
> > Subject: Re: [CCBC-Net] CCBC-Net Digest, Vol 33, Issue 4
> >
> >
> > But I also think that in the classroom, it's easy to put meaning into
> > authors' mouths that might not have been intended, or at the very least
> > to assume it was purposeful when it might have just been coincidental
> > during the writing process. I think this potentially complicates the
> > creation of their own poetry, too, for children, if they get the
> > impression that all poetry must be full of layers of meaning and devices
> > they don't yet understand, or it's not "good" poetry.
> >
> > Kristy Dempsey
> > Belo Horizonte, Brazil
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CCBC-Net mailing list
> > CCBC-Net at ccbc.education.wisc.edu
> > Visit this link to read archives or to unsubscribe...
> > http://ccbc.education.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/ccbc-net
> _______________________________________________
> CCBC-Net mailing list
> CCBC-Net at ccbc.education.wisc.edu
> Visit this link to read archives or to unsubscribe...
> http://ccbc.education.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/ccbc-net
Received on Fri 04 Apr 2008 02:49:06 PM CDT
