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[CCBC-Net] What the poet means/meant
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From: Sharron L. McElmeel <mcelmeels>
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 13:13:34 -0500
Marilyn is quite right to say that it DOES matter what the poet was trying to say and also that it matters as to what meaning that has for the reader.
And teaching it can be dicey. However, I have found that knowing something about the poet and his/her background and motivation for the poetry goes a long way to providing insight into the poem itself. The same is true of literature in general - -I came to that realization early on when I was first introduced to Lee Bennett Hopkins's BOOKS ARE BY PEOPLE and MORE BOOKS ARE BY MORE PEOPLE. Those two books not only helped me give young readers insight into the lives of authors of children's literature but later extended to Lee's PASS THE POETRY PLEASE (Harper, 1987; revised 1989) which provided biographical information about 24 poets.
Having some understanding of the poet helps bring a new perspective on the poetry written. And the reader becomes more aware of how life influences our thoughts and expressions. Sometimes they even come to the realization that their own lives might have similar bends and turns and perhaps the poetry will speak to them in the same way or in a different manner because their life has taken different bends and turns.
So we IMHO need to look at poetry from the viewpoint of the poet -- AND from the experiences the reader has. Just like a movie touches viewers in a different manner depending on what they bring to the theater so to does the poem touch a reader differently depending on what experiences the reader brings to the reading.
BTW - -it was Lee's wonderful books about the creators of books for children (and his poetry) that spun me into a life of literacy and writing about those who create books and poems for children. What a wonderful inspiration he has been.
Sharron McElmeel
At 1:26 PM -0400 04/04/08, WriterBabe wrote:
>Hmm. While I completely agree that poetry has often been taught
>badly with too much analysis, I find that I get irritated by the
>question "Does it matter what the poet was trying to say?" Of
>course it matters! I used to be a high school English teacher and I
>remember stumbling through a class when I was being observed by the
>chair of the English dep't. We were discussing a poem (can't
>remember which) and the students kept coming up with
>interpretations, many of which were flat-out wrong (if sometimes
>interesting). But, because I wanted to be encouraging, I kept
>saying, "Oh, that's a unique interpretation" and never saying,
>"Uh-uh." I got chewed out by the chair, of course.
>
>Now, I believe I was right to be encouraging, but wrong to encourage
>every interpretation as right. The trick about poems, imho, is that
>they DO mean something to the person who wrote them. But that
>something can have different personal meanings to the reader. In
>other words, it DOES matter what the poet was trying to say, but it
>also matters what the poem is saying to the child.
>
>So, I throw this back at teachers and librarians--how do you "teach"
>poetry so that it includes the author's meaning and readers'
>resonances? I can't claim to have been successful at that, so I'm
>not asking a rhetorical question here. Inquiring minds really want
>to know...
>
>Marilyn Singer<------------who's much happier these days writing
>poetry than attempting to teach it.
>
>
>
>In a message dated 04/04/08 13:01:46 Eastern Daylight Time,
>ccbc-net-request at ccbc.education.wisc.edu writes:
>To extend Monica's point (about poetry being presented as something to
>be figured out) one step further, I'd venture to say that often poetry
>is presented to children with the goal of trying to figure out what the
>*poet* was trying to say, "What does the poet mean when he says...",
>"Why does she use the phrase...", which is really just an exercise in
>futility. Does it matter what the poet was trying to say? Is not the
>most important thing what the poem says to the child?
>_______________________________________________
>CCBC-Net mailing list
>CCBC-Net at ccbc.education.wisc.edu
>Visit this link to read archives or to unsubscribe...
>http://ccbc.education.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/ccbc-net
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 13:13:34 -0500
Marilyn is quite right to say that it DOES matter what the poet was trying to say and also that it matters as to what meaning that has for the reader.
And teaching it can be dicey. However, I have found that knowing something about the poet and his/her background and motivation for the poetry goes a long way to providing insight into the poem itself. The same is true of literature in general - -I came to that realization early on when I was first introduced to Lee Bennett Hopkins's BOOKS ARE BY PEOPLE and MORE BOOKS ARE BY MORE PEOPLE. Those two books not only helped me give young readers insight into the lives of authors of children's literature but later extended to Lee's PASS THE POETRY PLEASE (Harper, 1987; revised 1989) which provided biographical information about 24 poets.
Having some understanding of the poet helps bring a new perspective on the poetry written. And the reader becomes more aware of how life influences our thoughts and expressions. Sometimes they even come to the realization that their own lives might have similar bends and turns and perhaps the poetry will speak to them in the same way or in a different manner because their life has taken different bends and turns.
So we IMHO need to look at poetry from the viewpoint of the poet -- AND from the experiences the reader has. Just like a movie touches viewers in a different manner depending on what they bring to the theater so to does the poem touch a reader differently depending on what experiences the reader brings to the reading.
BTW - -it was Lee's wonderful books about the creators of books for children (and his poetry) that spun me into a life of literacy and writing about those who create books and poems for children. What a wonderful inspiration he has been.
Sharron McElmeel
At 1:26 PM -0400 04/04/08, WriterBabe wrote:
>Hmm. While I completely agree that poetry has often been taught
>badly with too much analysis, I find that I get irritated by the
>question "Does it matter what the poet was trying to say?" Of
>course it matters! I used to be a high school English teacher and I
>remember stumbling through a class when I was being observed by the
>chair of the English dep't. We were discussing a poem (can't
>remember which) and the students kept coming up with
>interpretations, many of which were flat-out wrong (if sometimes
>interesting). But, because I wanted to be encouraging, I kept
>saying, "Oh, that's a unique interpretation" and never saying,
>"Uh-uh." I got chewed out by the chair, of course.
>
>Now, I believe I was right to be encouraging, but wrong to encourage
>every interpretation as right. The trick about poems, imho, is that
>they DO mean something to the person who wrote them. But that
>something can have different personal meanings to the reader. In
>other words, it DOES matter what the poet was trying to say, but it
>also matters what the poem is saying to the child.
>
>So, I throw this back at teachers and librarians--how do you "teach"
>poetry so that it includes the author's meaning and readers'
>resonances? I can't claim to have been successful at that, so I'm
>not asking a rhetorical question here. Inquiring minds really want
>to know...
>
>Marilyn Singer<------------who's much happier these days writing
>poetry than attempting to teach it.
>
>
>
>In a message dated 04/04/08 13:01:46 Eastern Daylight Time,
>ccbc-net-request at ccbc.education.wisc.edu writes:
>To extend Monica's point (about poetry being presented as something to
>be figured out) one step further, I'd venture to say that often poetry
>is presented to children with the goal of trying to figure out what the
>*poet* was trying to say, "What does the poet mean when he says...",
>"Why does she use the phrase...", which is really just an exercise in
>futility. Does it matter what the poet was trying to say? Is not the
>most important thing what the poem says to the child?
>_______________________________________________
>CCBC-Net mailing list
>CCBC-Net at ccbc.education.wisc.edu
>Visit this link to read archives or to unsubscribe...
>http://ccbc.education.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/ccbc-net
-- =================================== Sharron L. McElmeel University of Wisconsin - Stout Wisconsin's Polytechnic University Children's Literature in the Reading Program http://www.uwstout.edu/soe/profdev/childrenslit/ Young Adult Literature in the Reading Program http://www.uwstout.edu/soe/profdev/yalit/ 3000 N Center Point Rd Cedar Rapids, IA 52411-9548 ph. (319) 393-2562 mcelmeel at mcelmeel.com http://www.mcelmeel.com Author of Authors in the Pantry: Recipes, Stories, and More (Libraries Unlimited, 2007) Authors in the Kitchen: Recipes, Stories, and More (Libraries Unlimited, 2005), Best Teen Reads: 2005 (Hi Willow), Children's Authors and Illustrators Too Good to Miss (Libraries Unlimited); 100 Most Popular Children's Authors (Libraries Unlimited), 100 Most Popular Picture Book Authors and Illustrators (Libraries Unlimited), Character Education: A Book Guide for Teachers, Librarians, and Parents (Libraries Unlimited) and other titles (http://www.mcelmeel.com/writing). =================Received on Fri 04 Apr 2008 01:13:34 PM CDT
