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inexcusable
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From: Alina B. Klein <alinabk>
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 17:02:29 -0500
I agree with you completely, Laura. I don't think that it is true of all men either. I have a wonderful husband who doesn't have an aggressive bone in his body and many friends who are of the same mold. I simply quoted that line word for word from the book I read it in, parentheses and all.
I also know men who would fall into the first category you mentioned. I don't believe that we should paint everyone with a wide brush, but I was glad to know that this man had come to realize that certain myths have found their way into our society, and into his own life, and decided to bring them out in the open for other people to consider.
Best,
Alina Klein
----- Original Message -----
From: laura.kemp at att.net
To: Subscribers of ccbc-net
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: [ccbc-net] inexcusable
I find the idea in the quotes below that this is universal to men disturbing. I don't think all men have the same aggressiveness or lack of caring. I would be more comfortable with "we[a certain subset of men]...." or "we[potential ra pists]..." or even "we [cads]..."
I think some people see relationships as bartering agreements where each person gets something from the other, and sometimes will take more than agreed to. I think other people see relationships as honestly caring about and forming a bond with an other person. And this is true of both men and women. The man in the quotes below sounds like people I know who fit in the first group. I think they and may not even realize that there is a second group, or sees the second grou p as weak, stupid, and easily used. What I don't think is that this is a male/female dichotomy. I know men and women in each group.
Laura Kemp
www.livejournal.com/users/laurakemp
-------------- Original message from "Alina B. Klein" : --------------
The statistics, after all, are staggering: "1 in every 12 men admits to committing acts that meet legal definitions of rape "--(from "I Never Called it Rape--The Ms. Report on Recognizing, Fighting and Surviving Date and Acquaintance rape".)
In the same book quoted above, one man who was interviewed said this:
"I identified myself as an acquaintance rapist. I didn't knock anybody down, I didn't say: 'If you don't do this I'll twist your arm ,'...but I can remember perfectly overpowering people in that persuasive way that we [men] do: We lay on top of you (the woman) and you can't move. I can remember lying and creating all kinds of scenarios and never asking for consen sual sex. You know, not caring what happens the next day or having that person feel uncomfortable or unsettled about what had happened."
The man quoted here went on to speak to many colleges and men's groups about this. He recognized and understood the "mythology and everything else that we [men] are all about." and began working to dispel it.
Received on Sat 30 Jul 2005 05:02:29 PM CDT
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 17:02:29 -0500
I agree with you completely, Laura. I don't think that it is true of all men either. I have a wonderful husband who doesn't have an aggressive bone in his body and many friends who are of the same mold. I simply quoted that line word for word from the book I read it in, parentheses and all.
I also know men who would fall into the first category you mentioned. I don't believe that we should paint everyone with a wide brush, but I was glad to know that this man had come to realize that certain myths have found their way into our society, and into his own life, and decided to bring them out in the open for other people to consider.
Best,
Alina Klein
----- Original Message -----
From: laura.kemp at att.net
To: Subscribers of ccbc-net
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: [ccbc-net] inexcusable
I find the idea in the quotes below that this is universal to men disturbing. I don't think all men have the same aggressiveness or lack of caring. I would be more comfortable with "we[a certain subset of men]...." or "we[potential ra pists]..." or even "we [cads]..."
I think some people see relationships as bartering agreements where each person gets something from the other, and sometimes will take more than agreed to. I think other people see relationships as honestly caring about and forming a bond with an other person. And this is true of both men and women. The man in the quotes below sounds like people I know who fit in the first group. I think they and may not even realize that there is a second group, or sees the second grou p as weak, stupid, and easily used. What I don't think is that this is a male/female dichotomy. I know men and women in each group.
Laura Kemp
www.livejournal.com/users/laurakemp
-------------- Original message from "Alina B. Klein" : --------------
The statistics, after all, are staggering: "1 in every 12 men admits to committing acts that meet legal definitions of rape "--(from "I Never Called it Rape--The Ms. Report on Recognizing, Fighting and Surviving Date and Acquaintance rape".)
In the same book quoted above, one man who was interviewed said this:
"I identified myself as an acquaintance rapist. I didn't knock anybody down, I didn't say: 'If you don't do this I'll twist your arm ,'...but I can remember perfectly overpowering people in that persuasive way that we [men] do: We lay on top of you (the woman) and you can't move. I can remember lying and creating all kinds of scenarios and never asking for consen sual sex. You know, not caring what happens the next day or having that person feel uncomfortable or unsettled about what had happened."
The man quoted here went on to speak to many colleges and men's groups about this. He recognized and understood the "mythology and everything else that we [men] are all about." and began working to dispel it.
Received on Sat 30 Jul 2005 05:02:29 PM CDT
