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definitions and nomenclature
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From: Hollis Rudiger <hmrudiger>
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:14:28 -0500
Several people have thrown out some definitions for several related terms and I think all we can agree on so far is that graphic novels have pictures, and that they are somehow related to comics.
Monica used the term "semi-graphic novels" (referring to Philip Pullmans' Spring Heeled Jack) and wrote that Jules Feiffer's Meanwhile was a picture book. She suggested that one difference is that picture books can be read aloud, but graphic novels can't.
Marnie introduced the term "manga" to refer to Japanese GN's.
Janet introduced the term "graphic novelization" to refer to GN's based on movies, and the trademarked term, Cine-Manga, (which I, Hollis, acknowledge is a term owned by TokyoPop, the publisher, but I bet it soon becomes like Kleenex or band-aid...) and then another term,
"cartoon compilation."
Then Kathy's GREAT question, what is the term for a non-fiction GN? because it sure isn't a novel...
Ginny suggested Graphic Memoir to refer to Persepolis (Hollis wonders, then, if Blankets should be referred to as such as well?)
Barbara referred to "poetry comics" and a book of that title by Dave Morice
David mentioned trying to break his students' habit of calling Maus a comic book (vs GN) for fear of parental scorn
Jason referred to "it" not as a genre, but as a medium, and he included comics and GN's.
Karen wondered about whether it was the quality of the binding which affected the name, and suggested that comics are not a subset, but that are truly different formats.
Rob referred to Neil Gaiman 's talk in which he said it might be splitting hairs to distinguish between Graphic Novels and comics, but that Graphic novels were finite and have a complete story line, and comics are periodicals which are neverending.
Hollis agrees with everyone! Some additional thoughts.
-What THEY call graphic novels refers to all genres including fiction non fiction, poetry. We librarians get twitchy about that, but it seems we are relinquishing some control and recognizing that this comes from a different culture, with different rules, and just this once, we might have to classify the books for the patrons and not for Dewey or LC. As you noticed on noflyingnotights, there are as many genres of fiction in the world of GN's as there are in straight text fiction. And yet most libraries have all GN's together instead of by subject.
-Comics are often reprinted and bound in a trade paperback format and called a GN, and libraries can go that route to get the story in a format that lasts.(Also harder to steal) In my mind, they are GN's instead of comic compilations because the author intended for it to be a complete and finite set from the get go rather than a reaction to success. When a comic does really well, and is then repackaged, I call that a compilation because the repackaging doesn't always make artistic sense, it's more like the first 4 vols get rebound just because 4 seems like a good number, and it could go on like that indefinitely... On the other hand, who cares? Do patrons read them regardless of what we call them? heck yeah.
-Comics are not only neverending, but the same comic may have 7 or 8 different story lines born from it, and where a graphic novel belongs to the author (Persepolis is Marjeane Satrapi's, Sandman is Neil Gaiman's, etc) there are some comics which belong to the publisher, and in the 30 years it has been running, the writers and illustrators have changed 3 or 4 times. Example: X-Men. there are about 6 different new comics based on X-Men these days, and if you go in a store and ask to see an X-men comic (because you saw the move and wantto see what it was
"supposed to be") The vendor will ask you which one? The Uncanny X-Men? Wolverine? The Fantastic Four now has a parallel plotline with new writers/illustrators called Four. Same characters, same back story, but a completely different story, which, from now on, does not intersect. Definitely comics.
-I found this definition on about.com:
"Term used to describe a narrative written in comic book form that discusses serious issues as in mainstream literature." This is the only thing on this post that I think is harmful and wrong. It suggests that comics don't deal with issues as serious as in mainstream literature. I'd rather deal with a character like Archangel from X-Men, who has to figure out how to integrate the discovery of his mutant wings with his aristocratic life, and then how he has to go back and do it all over again when his wings are amputated by his enemy-- he asks really hard questions: Who am I? Is who I am dependent on what my body is? Do changes in my bady mean my mind changes? Give me ten of him rather than one Sweet Valley High Teen...
Hollis Rudiger, Librarian Cooperative Children's Book Center University of Wisconsin-School of Education 4290 Helen C. White Hall 600 North Park St. Madison, WI 53706
hmrudiger at education.wisc.edu Voice: 608&3930 Fax: 608&2I33 www.education.wisc.edu/ccbc/
Received on Tue 20 Apr 2004 11:14:28 AM CDT
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:14:28 -0500
Several people have thrown out some definitions for several related terms and I think all we can agree on so far is that graphic novels have pictures, and that they are somehow related to comics.
Monica used the term "semi-graphic novels" (referring to Philip Pullmans' Spring Heeled Jack) and wrote that Jules Feiffer's Meanwhile was a picture book. She suggested that one difference is that picture books can be read aloud, but graphic novels can't.
Marnie introduced the term "manga" to refer to Japanese GN's.
Janet introduced the term "graphic novelization" to refer to GN's based on movies, and the trademarked term, Cine-Manga, (which I, Hollis, acknowledge is a term owned by TokyoPop, the publisher, but I bet it soon becomes like Kleenex or band-aid...) and then another term,
"cartoon compilation."
Then Kathy's GREAT question, what is the term for a non-fiction GN? because it sure isn't a novel...
Ginny suggested Graphic Memoir to refer to Persepolis (Hollis wonders, then, if Blankets should be referred to as such as well?)
Barbara referred to "poetry comics" and a book of that title by Dave Morice
David mentioned trying to break his students' habit of calling Maus a comic book (vs GN) for fear of parental scorn
Jason referred to "it" not as a genre, but as a medium, and he included comics and GN's.
Karen wondered about whether it was the quality of the binding which affected the name, and suggested that comics are not a subset, but that are truly different formats.
Rob referred to Neil Gaiman 's talk in which he said it might be splitting hairs to distinguish between Graphic Novels and comics, but that Graphic novels were finite and have a complete story line, and comics are periodicals which are neverending.
Hollis agrees with everyone! Some additional thoughts.
-What THEY call graphic novels refers to all genres including fiction non fiction, poetry. We librarians get twitchy about that, but it seems we are relinquishing some control and recognizing that this comes from a different culture, with different rules, and just this once, we might have to classify the books for the patrons and not for Dewey or LC. As you noticed on noflyingnotights, there are as many genres of fiction in the world of GN's as there are in straight text fiction. And yet most libraries have all GN's together instead of by subject.
-Comics are often reprinted and bound in a trade paperback format and called a GN, and libraries can go that route to get the story in a format that lasts.(Also harder to steal) In my mind, they are GN's instead of comic compilations because the author intended for it to be a complete and finite set from the get go rather than a reaction to success. When a comic does really well, and is then repackaged, I call that a compilation because the repackaging doesn't always make artistic sense, it's more like the first 4 vols get rebound just because 4 seems like a good number, and it could go on like that indefinitely... On the other hand, who cares? Do patrons read them regardless of what we call them? heck yeah.
-Comics are not only neverending, but the same comic may have 7 or 8 different story lines born from it, and where a graphic novel belongs to the author (Persepolis is Marjeane Satrapi's, Sandman is Neil Gaiman's, etc) there are some comics which belong to the publisher, and in the 30 years it has been running, the writers and illustrators have changed 3 or 4 times. Example: X-Men. there are about 6 different new comics based on X-Men these days, and if you go in a store and ask to see an X-men comic (because you saw the move and wantto see what it was
"supposed to be") The vendor will ask you which one? The Uncanny X-Men? Wolverine? The Fantastic Four now has a parallel plotline with new writers/illustrators called Four. Same characters, same back story, but a completely different story, which, from now on, does not intersect. Definitely comics.
-I found this definition on about.com:
"Term used to describe a narrative written in comic book form that discusses serious issues as in mainstream literature." This is the only thing on this post that I think is harmful and wrong. It suggests that comics don't deal with issues as serious as in mainstream literature. I'd rather deal with a character like Archangel from X-Men, who has to figure out how to integrate the discovery of his mutant wings with his aristocratic life, and then how he has to go back and do it all over again when his wings are amputated by his enemy-- he asks really hard questions: Who am I? Is who I am dependent on what my body is? Do changes in my bady mean my mind changes? Give me ten of him rather than one Sweet Valley High Teen...
Hollis Rudiger, Librarian Cooperative Children's Book Center University of Wisconsin-School of Education 4290 Helen C. White Hall 600 North Park St. Madison, WI 53706
hmrudiger at education.wisc.edu Voice: 608&3930 Fax: 608&2I33 www.education.wisc.edu/ccbc/
Received on Tue 20 Apr 2004 11:14:28 AM CDT
