From: Monica R. Edinger <edinger>
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 07:48:38 +0100

I'm gratified with the responses to my opening post (with its jumbled Walrus and Carpenter parody -- Mr. Dodgson would disapprove, I'm sure.) When I was asked to lead this discussion I feared few would be interested.
 I'm part of a subculture of Carrollians, many of whom are truly obsessed with the man, but tend to find that most adults look at me quizzically when I say I love the books. They usually then tell me the books are weird and scared them as children. I'm so glad to read posts to indicate that is not as generally the case as I might have thought.

KT wrote of the mouse's tail. It is brilliant, I so agree! Carroll wrote two versions (that I know of). The first was in his handmade book Alice's Adventures Underground (for the real Alice, Alice Liddell) and the second for the published edition. I have a charming little book called
"The Tale of the Mouse's Tail: The Journey of Lewis Carroll's Mouse's Tail Around the World and Through Computers" by David and Maxine Schaefer (Mica Publishers, 1995) which has the tale in every possible permutation you could think of.

Amy Timberlake brought up her childhood fascination with Alice's size shifting. I agree with her that Carroll was brilliant in using this image as it is "what children experience all the time." I have a memory as a child sitting in a chair wondering when (if ever) my feet would touch the ground.

Peggy J. Rader mentions being intrigued by the pool of tears. "What an amazing idea, to think of LITERALLY drowning in your own tears. Put THAT in a country-western song!"
 Hmm, given the breathe of the Alice industry, I wouldn't be surprised if there was one already. While Jefferson Airplane's "White Rabbit" may be the most familiar Alice-inspired popular song recollected (tells us something of our age if we know it!), there have been many more since. I do want to point out that while many in the sixties did associate the Alice stories with drugs, there is no indication that their creator indulged.

Of the many illustrated editions I've seen (yes, I've got many, but nothing like serious collectors. Just go to any Lewis Carroll Society of North America meeting and you'll see what I mean!) I agree with Peggy that Anthony Browne's is one of the most successful at visualizing Carroll's words. Oxenbury didn't do it for me and many of the others are too adult and wild. (Zwenger's disappointed me too. In an interview published in The Knight Letter, she spoke of finding the book haunting, but it just is not my view of it at all so her illustrations don't work for me, beautiful as they are.) Browne's are full of visual puns that do justice to Carroll's language play. My students love his edition! Too bad he didn't do Looking-glass too.

Peggy asks about the lost "Wasp in a Wig" chapter. This was a chapter that Carroll wrote, but which Tenniel refused to illustrate. It was discovered some years ago. There is some controversy among Carrollians about it. Some wonder if it is a hoax or for real. At any rate, it isn't all that wonderful and I can see why Tenniel didn't want to do it. Anyone who wants to know more and read the original go to: http://www.student.kun.nl/l.derooy

losey at execpc.com mentions going to the British Library and seeing Carroll's original handmade book of Alice's Adventures Underground (the precursor of the published book Alice's Adventures in Wonderland.) I agree with her that Carroll's own drawings are lovely. I am fascinated by them and have been trying, without much success, to find out more about how he did them. I was at Christ Church College (Carroll's college in Oxford) a couple of years ago and they had some of his and his brother's sketches for this book. Alice is very different from Tenniel's and the drawings are just very intriguing to me. When I have time I'd love to research them further.

I'm thrilled to hear that Ilene Abramson's daughter took such pleasure in Alice that she pursued the books into college.

Stuall asked about Mr. Carroll and if we are to examine him as well. Of course, if that is where the list wants to go. However, I will say immediately that the man has been greatly misrepresented in biographies. There are several scholars currently beginning from scratch with primary source data (mostly letters and diaries) and are creating new views of the man. Complex he was, but not in the way he has been presented. For more on Carroll (or rather, the Reverend Charles L. Dodgson), go to http://www.lewiscarroll.org/info.html#Bio. This page is part of the larger Lewis Carroll Home Page (http://www.lewiscarroll.org) which is probably the most comprehensive web site for information on Carroll and his books.

Monica Edinger The Dalton School New York NY edinger at dalton.org monicaedinger at yahoo.com
Received on Wed 04 Oct 2000 01:48:38 AM CDT