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Assertive Alice
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From: Monica R. Edinger <edinger>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 07:54:59 +0100
Maia and Amy, Thanks for raising some fascinating ideas about the character of Alice.
Maia, I think that Carroll was "reflecting the Alice that was." He initially created the story for Alice Liddell and her two sisters, Edith and Lorina. Later, as a gift for Alice, he wrote it down and illustrated it as Alice's Adventure's Underground (now on view at the British Museum.)
Carroll also showed it to friends (including George MacDonald) and was encouraged to revise and expand it for publication. At this point the character of Alice went from being Alice Liddell to the more fictional Alice, an "every Alice" and Carroll's image of the perfect little girl, eight years old I believe. (Martin Gardner's annotated version gives the specifics. Norton came out with a new edition last year.) I also think that last section of the sister's dream is Carroll's melancholy reflections on Alice growing up. It has also been used to support the image of Carroll as obsessive about little girls, a man who didn't like them to grow up. However, as Mike noted, that is now being proved to be an erroneous view of the man, most likely propagated by his relatives who figured it was a better way to present him than as a single many who liked adult women. (These are Victorians remember!)
I had never really thought about using the book as Maia suggests: as a way to encourage teen girl empowerment. Interesting!
I think it is interesting, Maia, that you recollect Alice as being frightened and overpowered as a child. I suspect that was a recollection of the Disney film rather than the book. The film absolutely focuses on this and Alice flees at the end. Very different from the book where she gets fed up at the end and her sister dreams enviously of going to Wonderland.
I actually have always responded to the book as a series of set pieces rather than as a dream or for the plot. But I also loved Alice because she seemed so in control to me. Amy described her appeal well, the sort of pre?olescent girl I admired. I have also just loved each chapter for itself, the clever songs and poems, the silly dialogues, and more. It is the language play and characters that do the most for me, I think. In fact, the dream has always annoyed me. I felt Carroll coped out by making it a dream. My students tend to feel that way as well. That last section is so saccharin after the sharpness of the rest.
MoniCA
Monica Edinger The Dalton School New York NY edinger at dalton.org monicaedinger at yahoo.com
Received on Mon 09 Oct 2000 01:54:59 AM CDT
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 07:54:59 +0100
Maia and Amy, Thanks for raising some fascinating ideas about the character of Alice.
Maia, I think that Carroll was "reflecting the Alice that was." He initially created the story for Alice Liddell and her two sisters, Edith and Lorina. Later, as a gift for Alice, he wrote it down and illustrated it as Alice's Adventure's Underground (now on view at the British Museum.)
Carroll also showed it to friends (including George MacDonald) and was encouraged to revise and expand it for publication. At this point the character of Alice went from being Alice Liddell to the more fictional Alice, an "every Alice" and Carroll's image of the perfect little girl, eight years old I believe. (Martin Gardner's annotated version gives the specifics. Norton came out with a new edition last year.) I also think that last section of the sister's dream is Carroll's melancholy reflections on Alice growing up. It has also been used to support the image of Carroll as obsessive about little girls, a man who didn't like them to grow up. However, as Mike noted, that is now being proved to be an erroneous view of the man, most likely propagated by his relatives who figured it was a better way to present him than as a single many who liked adult women. (These are Victorians remember!)
I had never really thought about using the book as Maia suggests: as a way to encourage teen girl empowerment. Interesting!
I think it is interesting, Maia, that you recollect Alice as being frightened and overpowered as a child. I suspect that was a recollection of the Disney film rather than the book. The film absolutely focuses on this and Alice flees at the end. Very different from the book where she gets fed up at the end and her sister dreams enviously of going to Wonderland.
I actually have always responded to the book as a series of set pieces rather than as a dream or for the plot. But I also loved Alice because she seemed so in control to me. Amy described her appeal well, the sort of pre?olescent girl I admired. I have also just loved each chapter for itself, the clever songs and poems, the silly dialogues, and more. It is the language play and characters that do the most for me, I think. In fact, the dream has always annoyed me. I felt Carroll coped out by making it a dream. My students tend to feel that way as well. That last section is so saccharin after the sharpness of the rest.
MoniCA
Monica Edinger The Dalton School New York NY edinger at dalton.org monicaedinger at yahoo.com
Received on Mon 09 Oct 2000 01:54:59 AM CDT
